(There were several other nonsensical posts prior to me jumping in at this point.)
Mark I bet these idiots haven’t read that 666 was code for Nero Caesar when translated into Hebrew and has nothing to do with imps, demons, Hell or Satan… It symbolized more that of a blasphemer or heretic. Nero was considered an enemy of the Jews. Stands to reason they’d make him a beast in their Bible…
Larry Marshall And where would I find that “666″ was a Hebrew code for Nero? What is your source the TV show Paranormal?
I am an Atheist Hebrew numerology, gives 666 as the translation of Nero’s name (don’t put it down it’s no more or less credible than creationism). Since Nero lived from 37 – 68 AD (31 years, odd), and Rev. 12:12 wouldn’t have been penned until some years after Nero’s death, the scribes writing the bible , would have used the plagiarized accounts of the clergy dictating them. As with so many Greek and Egyptian stories and holidays, this story would have been used to mask Greek mythology (it would have been their religion at the time, and not considered mythology until a few decades after the conversion of those that still believed). Put the bible in perspective, the stories in it rival those of Aesop, which were created 500 years before the bible, credited to a slave, who’s existence is questionable at best, coincidence, I think not. since the Egyptians were meticulous records keepers, regardless of how vile the actions, why, in all the text found to date, is there no mention of Moses, or an uprising of slaves, no Red Sea, where how many soldiers would have been killed? What you have is a bunch of stolen stories and adopted (more like kidnapped) codes of conduct, that were not followed by those that came to be Christians until well after they saw the rest of civilization living by some of them, and cherry picked the ones that best served their needs. *GRR*
Larry Marshall Again, you’re anti-religion stance slants your statements. However, I can’t find in any of my Hebrew texts and translation guides that 666 is Nero’s name. I’m interested in finding it out- do you have a reference I can look up and then do further research on- it is an intriguing concept. The only thing I have found so far is this: “gematria (a system of equating letters with numbers to derive some new message; such as those who calculate the value of letters in various languages to reach ‘666’ and decide, using gematriac calculations based on a person’s name, that that person is ‘the Antichrist’) ” But not exactly what you are claiming. As far as the Egyptians go, many leaders throughout time have “changed history” to suit them. Easier to back then than in our age. But no great and wonderful Pharaoh would want any writings about the terrible losses he suffered to former slaves. It is plausible he threatened to cut off the hands or eyes of anyone writing about the jews. I do believe (and I will admit its been at least 15 years since I read it) in Malcom McDowells book “Evidence That Demands A Verdict” that he does show in various mid-Eastern museums plenty of documentations of sales receipts from farmers, stores, etc selling large quantities of food “for slaves” to the Egyptians, mentions of mass burials for those that died during the building projects etc.
I am an Atheist well there are no creationist pages that you will believe so your on your own there, but since you have so much gime to troll the net, I’m sure you can find it,
(I believe he meant evolutionist pages and time instead of gime)
As for moses, your statement about changing things in history, the most notorius of such things are the scribes of the bible, right down to trying to fabricate documentation of christ, If there had been such an epic miracle as the parting of a sea (and the firming of a sea bed, which even the babble left out) not only would there have been record, but also the whole of Egypt would be hebrew. This would be proof.
(There is a written record, the Bible, and not sure why he believes Egypt would be Hebrew- the Hebrews left the country and the Pharoh would want to get every mention of the Jews out of anything that had to do with his name.)
This would be non comtestable proof, but it isn’t because it couldn’t and didn’t happen, What I find amusing and reougnant at the same time is, you claim that we are all wrong and your right, but you reject common sense and reasonability for supposition and impossibilities. Every argument is “we’re wrong because we weren’t there, yet you’re right because you believe.
(And once again, anytime you attack a person’s beliefs (even if though they say it isn’t a belief, they claim I am right and they are wrong. I don’t think I’ve said they were wrong, I’ve just been presenting alternate interpretations of what they say and they never respond to it except with I’m saying I’m right and they are wrong. All I want is a valid intelligent discussion of the facts and alternative beliefs- but that obviously is not going to happen.)
As for the Hebrew numerology, if you could read, you would see that I said, the people who believe this got it from a breakdown of Hebrew numerologists, go on what ever search engine you use and look at it…you can say they only say that because they want to discredit the bible, but then the same can be said for you.
(I have no desire to discredit the Bible, which I am sure isn’t what you meant, and I’m a scientist. I view the existing data – information about Hebrew numerologists- and try to determine if the results are repeatable or if there is enough doubt over the methodology to cast dispersions on the results.)
I am an Atheist On a personal note, no one is going to read you cock and bull blogsite, if there is something here you don’t agree with, feel free to go away, you arrogance is only suprceeded by a lack of common sense, and the simple fact that you are a hypocritical asshole, you think you can dismiss fact with accusations of concocted proof, but what do you have…belief in the largest culmination of lies, contradictions, and fairytales known to man, and we’re supposed to throw IQ’s out the window and blindly follow you. Well, if there was a god, and I were standing face to face with it, I would tell it the same thing I’m about to tell you…GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT…and have a nice day! *GRR*RRRRRRR
(I have no desire to have anyone follow me, especially blindly. Again, what concocted proof, what is a lie, where are the contradictions that you are complaining about. Tell me so we can discuss it. And I promise, I won’t use vulgar language against you.)
Larry Wow, you folks sure don’t like it when you are presented with alternatives to the drivel you put out as facts – again with no proof. Prove to me there is no God. Again not possible to do so you believe there is none by faith with other non-believers, I believe there is and never the twain shall meet.
I did my homework, researched various encyclopedias, dictionaries and manuscripts for 666 and can only conclude it is as believable as what you so elegantly wrote “belief in the largest culmination of lies, contradictions, and fairytales known to man” which is atheism and all its forms.
There are three good reasons this number was used. The first is the fact that in the Scriptures, the number of Man is 6 because Man was created on the sixth day. In contrast, the number of God is 7 because it represents completion and perfection, since on the seventh day of creation, God rested from His work which He declared to be good or perfect.
Now, in the Hebrew language, superlatives are expressed by repeating the word or phrase, the ultimate being its repetition three times. Thus, when Isaiah saw the Lord lifted up and exalted in the Temple, he heard Seraphim singing, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts” (Isaiah 6:1-3). The number 666 therefore represents the number of Man carried to its zenith.
The use of this number is most appropriate because during the Tribulation Satan will work to exalt his man, the Antichrist, as the world’s Messiah. Further, on the earth at that time there will be a demonic trinity who will represent the Humanistic aspirations of Man — Satan masquerading as God, the Antichrist pretending to be the Messiah, and the False Prophet mimicking the role of the Holy Spirit by pointing people to the false Messiah.
The second reason the number 666 is used is because of its symbolism in Jewish thinking. The Bible tells us that in the year in which King Solomon received 666 talents of gold, he turned his back on God and became obsessed with women, horses, and money (1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13). Thus, in Jewish history, the number 666 came to stand for apostasy.
The third reason the number is used is related to the fact that in both Hebrew and Greek, the letters of the alphabet also stand for numbers. This makes it possible to add up a numerical value for every name. The Antichrist’s name will add up to 666 in either Greek or Hebrew (or perhaps both) and will thus be an expression of the ultimate apostasy — presenting one’s self as a substitute for the real Messiah.
From Wikepedia which is questionable anyway, but I did find similar references under various folklores:
It is widely accepted by many scholars that Roman Emperor Nero (ruling 54–68) is the first Beast of Revelation 13. This interpretation was received by enumerating his name and title Neron Caesarto the Number of the Beast. An Aramaic scroll from Murabba’at, dated to “the second year of Emperor Nero”, refers to him by his name and title where in Hebrew it is Nron Qsr (pronounced “Nerōn Kaisar”), and in Latin it is Nro Qsr (pronounced “Nerō Kaisar”).
Nron Qsr The Greek version of the name and title transliterates into Hebrew as נרון קסר, and yields a numerical value of 666:
|Resh (ר)||Samekh (ס)||Qoph (ק)||Nun (נ)||Vav (ו)||Resh (ר)||Nun (נ)||Sum|
And of course we have such items as: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK4IgxrwnH8 where Barack Obama is calculated to 666
So, you’re busted. You are using hokum to prove a point and passing it off as being fact.
(Just the fact that so many people with so many different ways are able to come up with 666 being the name of the current villain in the press means their premise is “hokum”)
I am an Atheist First, you wamted to know where they got the 666= Nero,, I told you. It’s not what we think, it’s the mindless garbage that theist use to justify crap. But you make a statement about someone using garbage facts to back an argument and all you’ve given is creationist rhetoric and bible inferences and top it off with that little turd o a link…and I’m not supposed to get frustrated. You haven’t “offered n alternative” ,that would imply that there’s a possible chance you’re rong as well, .What you have done is push a bogus viewpoint and change point r claim ignorance to information to stress a null point. Your asking citation, I’m demandi.g proof. As for the last post. READ THE FIRST FOUR WORDS!
I m an Atheist how do you prove something oes not exist? Show you a picture of nothing. Would that be photographic vidence, a blank DVD? So there, now if you claim something “is” it’s bligatory to produce what you claim is, or sufficient proof of it. If man will istort data to get a desired outcome, then all so called evidence is tainted o fabricated and yours is no more valid than any other. Since we throw vidence that is disregarded, back to step one….your claim, prove it.
I m an Atheist that’s a lovely, long winded, nd useless post Larry. It’s religious garbage, I’m not Hebrew, jew, xtain, or ny of the other thousands of religions that live by ancient words that have een twisted to fit for millennia,. Atheism does not adhere to a book of lies nd contradictions, unless those encyclopedias or dictionaries are what you’re roposing as such, in which case you are burying your own argument.
(I assume he was talking about the post on the calculation of 666 to prove someone’s name is evil. He at least acknowledged the post but has done nothing to refute any of the points mentioned.)
I am an Atheist All you’ve managed to do is pick through everything you’ve read, and twist definition to suit you. You gave a full dictionary definition of evolution, only to go against that definition for the sake of what you needed it to mean, you did the same with atheism. You claim that citations are not to be trusted because they are changed by the author to promote their cause, but the blatantly bias, creationist propaganda is all that is factual (then you yourself show that the research used scripture and belief over evidence).
From this point on, the rest of the page can have you. There are many alternatives to creation, the most plausible, do not include god. But since there is no mention of such in that fairytale book, it would be useless to even mention. I won’t let my personal disdain for you take away from the people who come here.
(It is obvious that they can not believe in anything BY FAITH. If I can’t touch it, see it, taste it, smell it I don’t believe it exists- unless of course it fulfills what I need for my theories of cosmology, evolution, physics, etc. If we say it exists, even if we can’t prove it then it exits.)
Larry Marshall My, my, my. What is it with you folks. When was it that you lost your “faith” in all the good things of life. Was it Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy or realizing that the WWE is not real wrestling? What was it you past that turned you sour. Are you hypocritical and tell your children about Santa Claus and then destroy the myth for them at age 9 or so just to have fun. Somewhere along the line, it seems something snapped and you now hate and disbelieve anything that you cannot touch taste, see, feel or throw.
You’ve put out so much junk, that I’m just going to briefly cover some of them. One, first and foremost is you folks have a tendency to read into other peoples statements ideas and imagery that is not there, but if it was it would prove your point all the more so. I mentioned I was on disability and you were crass enough to insinuate I must be lying about it. I understand, it seems that there is unfortunately a large amount of fraud going on thanks to the liberals running things. I’m especially appalled by those “adult babies” getting disability benefits so they can stay at home and play with diapers for themselves and girlfriends. (It’s true there are approximately 550 of them and an entire industry for furniture, clothes for ‘adult babies’).
(It was on another discussion –on 7/26/13 already posted- where I mentioned I was on disability and thereby had the time to do research I did not before and then the WebMaster degraded me for being a sloth on disability- without any facts – typical of them. That discussion is below this one- God’s role in disasters and I responded here)
I am and have been asthmatic all of my life. Back then all they had were steroids and Theophylline and Tederal which were heart stimulants. It cleared our lungs but had us bouncing all over the walls. When I had a heart sonogram in 2002, the technician asked me if I was into sports, and I said no, why. He explained that my heart muscles looked a lot like many athletes who had been doing steroids for many years. Oh, well and nobody to sue for various reasons- drugs were generic, on market for 40 years etc. So one of my heart values is functioning at less than 60% efficiency. My insurance company wouldn’t replace it unless it is less than 50%. Seems kind of stupid to me, I would at least be able to survive the surgery. The less it functions the unhealthier I get.
So I’m at the point that if I walk 50 yards on a hot summer day, my lips and fingertips start to turn blue. I submitted all of my doctors reports for the past 3 years to the Social Security Administration and they determined that I should be listed as disabled. I had been on long term disability from my job for 5 months but was exhausting my benefits it so I had to retire instead of running the risk of being laid off. This at least preserved my full retirement benefits but they don’t kick in until I turn 65, if I live that long. And my disability payments are 1/3 of what my salary was, so it’s not something I really wanted to do.
During the discussion Ronald wrote …and Larry, to your point of Creationist scientist…..at least 85% of the scientists in the National Academy of Sciences reject Creationism.
Which means 15% believe in Creationism. The unanswered question is when did the majority opinion become the exclusive purveyors (or possible pervertors) of the truth.
Larry Marshall Several times you folks accused me of believing in fairy tales, well how about some scientific fairy tales.
The standard cosmological paradigm is of a universe in which ordinary matter comprises only about 10%, and the other 90% is in non-baryonic forms. The latter may include the elusive axion, WIMPs (weakly interacting massive particles) or other unknown particles, which allegedly don’t interact with light. (So, these things can’t be seen but we know these unknown particles are there, they have to be to make our equations balance on both sides of the equal sign).
As theory goes, CDM was introduced to get matter to form galaxies early in the universe’s history, but that created another problem—computer simulations predicted that a huge number of dwarf galaxies would have formed but these are undetected. Hence the need for the huge hypothetical particles that ‘would form giant globs of “fuzzy” cold dark matter.’
On July 5th 2010 the European Space Agency (ESA) released its first one-year-long all-sky survey map of the cosmos as seen by the Planck-satellite-borne microwave telescope.
But how do we know that this radiation comes from the big bang? Firstly, this cannot be a ‘photograph’ of the big bang itself, because it is very feeble low temperature radiation, and it is assumed that as the universe expanded the very hot unobserved putative (believed to exist now or to have existed at some time) radiation from the initial putative primordial fireball was adiabatically(occurring without loss or gain of heat) cooled to this radiation we see today. Secondly, only by eliminating all other possible sources of the CMBR radiation could you definitely say it is from an alleged ‘big bang’. (So the top scientists had to theorize that there was a massive fireball which generated no extra heat (energy) or loss of any heat, which would upset the Second Law of Thermodynamics-, and we can’t have that.)
So does the Planck satellite really tell us something new about the Big Bang? Not really! The problem is that you cannot know for sure what you are looking at. The cosmos is not the same as the local laboratory where you can do a control experiment—send in some radiation and look for a response. Nowadays it has come down to inventing many unknowns—‘dark’ matter, ‘dark’ energy, this big bang ‘afterglow’ and even ‘inflation’, some unobserved super-expansion that occurred for an infinitesimal moment after the big bang, that was started and stopped by … well, no one knows, but it caused the volume of the universe to increase 1070 times (yikes!) in this brief moment which was such a short period of time we can’t measure it and thus causing the universe to expand much faster than the speed of light. And it (inflation) must be correct (remember, no Creator, no purpose) because it solves so many other problems with the big bang, like the isotropy problem, flatness problem, the horizon problem, problem, problem, etc. … . You can believe anything you like, it seems, but the true historical creation account, found in the first book of the Bible, makes much more sense to me. Genesis stands in stark opposition to big bang cosmology; firstly the millions of years issue, and secondly the order of events. Genesis has the sun and stars created after the earth exists—big bang thinking has them existing millions of years before the earth.
There is more details on my blog site: http://larryemarshall.wordpress.com Search for “fuzzy” And oh by the way, my blogs are very active with lots of people from both sides of the issues commenting and emailing me about the articles.
And about Stephen Hawkings Fanatsy Land: In An Open Letter to the Scientific Community, originally published in New Scientist 182(2448):20, 22 May 2004, and now available at cosmologystatement.org, 34 secular scientists signed the statement, part of which is quoted below. Since then it has been co-signed by a further 218 Scientists and Engineers, 187 Independent Researchers, and 105 Other Signers.[i] It reads as follows: The big bang today relies on a growing number of hypothetical entities, things that we have never observed—inflation, dark matter and dark energy are the most prominent examples. Without them, there would be a fatal contradiction between the observations made by astronomers and the predictions of the big bang theory. In no other field of physics would this continual recourse to new hypothetical objects be accepted as a way of bridging the gap between theory and observation. It would, at the least, raise serious questions about the validity of the underlying theory.
Which brings up the other question on peer reviewed articles: They are many creationists who have published in a variety of magazines. Unfortunately, there is and has been a bias against conservative scientists for a long, long time. It existed when I first went to college from ’69 to ’74- only that time I was in favor of the bias. You folks will say that is because the science is not up to par but that is not the true facts. My article http://larryemarshall.wordpress.com/ and search for “peer.” There will be several references from the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and Nature magazine where they admit to bias in not selecting articles by creationists.
And I submit also that the articles presented by creationists are more thoroughly documented, referenced and resourced than the typical non-creationists for two reasons: 1) we know it will be scrutinized closely and 2) we have to answer to a Higher Power.
One more point: in the discussion we had ongoing I received this response from Dave Pat**** You labeling of those that support evolution as “evillutionists” proves how insecure you really are, How funny I use one alliteration “evil-lutionists” and you jump on me. However, nobody said anything about the approximately 22 times (I gave up counting) I was called a variety of names. But I understand when you can no longer deal with facts presented the obvious response is to personally attack the person you can’t get to believe the fantasies and fairy tales you believe in.
You all have a good day, I’m reading some of the articles *GRR* posted (I always do as a courtesy). A couple are ludicrous, one is very interesting and I want to research the authors some more, and ones is very entertaining but not informative. Talk with you later, and again, you are always welcome to view, post or comment on my blog sites.
I am an Atheist I actually started to read that, but when you started accusing us of doing exactly what you’ve done since the first time you posted on this site, I didn’t bother finishing. I didn’t teach my children those myths either.
(In other words, don’t accuse me of doing what we are accussing you of doing- it’s not fair.)
All your arguments all come out the same….scientists found what they believe is (confusing think for believe, but that is common error), science does not “believe”, until there is proof, they think until then (hypothesis vs theory). Then you propose that they are not sure, so they are wrong and it’s god. So what’s to say you are right, they have proof of evolution (and not the bogus evolution that you try to convince people of, the one you’ve repeatedly refused to acknowledge), now you keep saying “god” with absolutely no proof there is a god. It’s hypocracy that you don’t have to be held to the same standard of proof as science, simply because you can’t accept the fact that you already know you can’t meet that standard. *GRR*
I am an Atheist As for your disability, how did I know you were on it? Because for whatever reason (sympathy, special treatment, whatever), you felt the need to say it, so yeah, it bears relevance now, because if you hold to your beliefs, why, by intelligent design are you disabled, why are the lungs, specifically designed to keep you alive, killing you. Did you do something so vile againstyour god that you deserved to suffer till you died? What warranted that long and agonizing death sentence? And if it was so heinous as to warrant that much agony, what does it have planned for your afterlife? But no, asthma is a genetic disorder, isn’t it? You were born with it, what purpose do you suppose god had for creating asthma?
(One of the advantageous of being retired on disability. I have the time and with the internet I have access to sources on both sides of the divide. This was the post from another topic that he interjected here)
Why do you get met with insults and indignation here? Because from your first post on here, you started with arrogant and condescending undertones, with inadequate proof of anything, even your own brother ran down your so called evidence. Your alternate possibilities with so many holes that the Flying Spaghetti Monster could have been strained through it, are ridiculous and your failure to comprehend the very definitions that you post male you a laughing stock. *GRR*
I am an Atheist What is the absolute temperatre of space? How many earth years would it take to cool a 500 billion ton, we’ll say, 60,000 °k , mass at that temperature? Keep in mind, these numbers are purely hypothetical.
The problem now is this, everything was created, this is not the argument, since all sides agree, the how is the disagreement.
Now think, atheists do not believe in god, but we do know that by some process, everything was created. Creation and god are NOT the same thing. Do you get that. Those scientists and the “fuzzy matter”, they will never call it god, until they can prove it to be, or not to be, a god. Until then it remains a spacial anomaly similar to quarks, and black holes.
You are quick to dismiss the Big Bang, why, is it because it removes god from the equation? Then why was it first proposed by Georges Latemiere (I may have spelled it wrong, but I have the right catholic priest),
You’ve repeatedly made the same statements to refute what we’ve said….”we weren’t there” & and men often change details to conform to what they want to find”…these two statements ring truest when you talk of the bible…statement translated by man and edited and rewritten by more men. There is no physical evidence of any of the main characters or the epic events that are laid claim to. Science, as limited as it is, has physical evidence of evolution, dinosaurs, and the age of the planet.
Just because you believe in it, it will never be fact until it is proven…
I am an Atheist Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups, the posts you’re reading as a courtesy, don’t flatter yourself, I could care less if you read them. However I do find it fascinating how you can dismiss their validity based on nothing more than the assumption that I posted them. The sources…the Smithsonian Institute, National Counsil of Science and Education (NCSE),I can see why they’re laughable It would be a guess ,but the interesting one, would that be ecclesia.com (the religious one about numerology,) the one that has the least impact against your argument, but even then you won’t man up to jumping to proclaim everyone else wrong,
(I hadn’t dismissed them as of yet, I mentioned I was going to read them in detail but gave a preliminary assumption based upon scanning them. And as usual he ASSUMED I was going to dismiss them)