FB-No Such Thing as Resurrection

FB-No Such Thing as Resurrection

Samuel  March 27 at 12:33pm ·

Today is a good day to remember that people do not come back to life after they die. If any of you have seen someone come back from the dead please tell me because I would like to hear about it. Even if you know someone who saw a person come back from the dead or if you know someone who knows someone who saw a person come back to life from being dead, please tell me about it.

Bear It has happened….just not 3 days later.

Samuel Well yeah, I was meaning dead dead, not resuscitation.

Bear Especially after rotting for 3 days…there, fixed it.

Bear lol

Samuel If Jesus really came back after 3 days he would’ve smelled pretty rotten! And he would have looked like those ugly zombie motherfuckers on The Walking Dead.

Bear lol

Carlene Besides Christ, I’m with you on this one.

Casey Are you trying to say there’s no such things as zombies?!? Blasphemy!!!

Samuel Easter is the zombie Christmas! Does that make sense?

Larry Marshall Our God only needed one resurrected son for our salvation. Otherwise, yes, nobody comes back to life. https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/…/we-were-not…/ https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/…/we-were-not…/ https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/…/we-were-not…/

Samuel Larry, the point I was making is that the tale of the resurection of Jesus is fiction.

Anthony

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Anthony

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Anthony

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Larry Marshall No, the resurrection is fact and true and even non-believers who have studied all the facts agree, he lived, he died, he was resurrected and then appeared before many people over the next 40 days. Many non-biblical documents support the facts, even if you don’t want to read them or believe them.

Samuel Larry, you’re being ridiculous. People don’t come back to life after rotting in a tomb for three days. If you want to talk about facts, everyone in the scientific community and people in general all agree that people don’t rise up after being dead for three days. Sorry to tell you that the story of the resurrection of Jesus is made up.

Larry Marshall The Resurrection was God acting supernaturally. Since He created everything, He can change nature as he see fits. You must not have read my articles. They clearly state that many in the scientific community can not explain the FACTS within known scientific parameters. They agree that a man named Jesus lived, was persecuted by the Jews and Romans, was crucified and buried. And they agree that 3 days later there was no body in the tomb. These scientists can not explain it and the 5 theories offered have more holes in them than the Truth- resurrection of Jesus. You can look at some of the facts and decide the story is false, I and a whole lot of others look at ALL the facts and are pretty convinced that it is true.

Anthony

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Samuel Larry, there is plenty of evidence that Jesus may not have even existed, so your “facts” are lopsided.

Larry Marshall What evidence?

Larry Marshall Anthony, none of the sources mentioned used the Bible to support their claims. They used all of the other historical writings by Jews, Gentiles, Romans, etc. But if if the Bible was used it has been proven to be historically accurate by many individuals. Of course, I doubt that you would be interested in reading the facts.

Samuel   https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/did-historical-jesus…/

Larry Marshall A newspaper article by a known atheist is not facts. I will read it and the followings, but I have some medical problems with family members to take care. I won’t be able to get on it until Friday and will give a point by point rebuttal by Monday.

Samuel You think an article by an atheist can’t present evidence? You write a lot of articles, Larry, should I disregard any evidence you present because you’re a known Christian?

Larry Marshall Sorry poorly written. He s a known atheist and I would question his motive and statements more carefully than I would a secular person just as you should question my statements. It is the statements backed by facts and well referenced that are worth discussing.. Raphael Lataster has no references, so the article is strictly his opinions-educated ones possibly. In the second paragraph he uses a portion of a quote completely out of context and uses a rather simple logical fallacy to change to a different subject. I have to start driving now, so again, I detail more of a response by Monday. Take care Samuel.

Samuel   http://www.alternet.org/…/5-reasons-suspect-jesus-never…

Samuel   http://www.bandoli.no/whyjesus.htm

Samuel  Don’t give rebuttals. Just read the facts with an open mind and realize you’re wrong.

Larry Marshall If the facts are wrong, I have to provide a rebuttal. Can’t allow false statements to be continuously circulated. On your first article his original publication was on: http://theconversation.com/weighing-up-the-evidence-for… and as in the Post article he has no verifiable references. It is pretty much his opinion which I won’t discount automatically. I will examine each paragraph and determine it’s validity. Of course, this could all stop if you “just read the facts with an open mind and realized your wrong.”

Samuel I enjoy our discussions, Larry Marshall.

So here are the articles to refute the articles provided above in

https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/proving-the-gospels/

https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/31/why-a-historical-jesus-never-existed/

https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/jesus-historical-existence

and for giggles and grins: https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/31/literary-arrangement-and-the-gospels/

I posted my response on 4/4/16 and as of 4/11/16, no response has been made. If I was egotistical, I would say I stumped the.  However, there could be several reasons, some good- some not, for the lack of response.

Why a historical Jesus never existed

This was listed as a reference to the FB discussion on Resurrection.  I’ll let the article go uncommented and reserve mine until the end in italics.

Why a historical Jesus never existed

http://www.bandoli.no/whyjesus.htm


There is no contemporary historical record of any kind of Jesus!! No written Roman, Greek or Jewish sources from this time (apart from the gospels) know of any historical Jesus or Christ. The name “Christ” is mentioned in some later texts (Tacitus, Suetonius Pliny d.y.) but then merely as the name of the idol of the Christians’ worship (Read what these sources really say here). We don’t even know who the writers of the Gospels were, and don’t have the original manuscripts themselves either. We just have later copies of copies of copies of copies … of copies of the assumed lost originals. And with each copy the copyist usually felt free to alter details or rewrite whole parts of the manuscript. (We usually don’t trust dubious anonymous sources as evidence for anything, do we?)

All the divine aspects of the Jesus figure are “stolen” from earlier similar dying and resurrected godmen, such as Dionysos, Osiris, Hercules, Attis, Mithra, Horus, Zarathustra and others. Actually there are few (if any) things about Jesus that are original at all. Jesus is just the Jewish version of this popular mythic Saviour- character in the Mystery-religions of Antiquity. (See the similarities here).

All the teachings of Jesus are “borrowed” from older sources, for example from the teachings of Buddha. Many of Jesus teachings are almost word for word identical with some of Buddhas sayings (400 years earlier). The so-called “Golden rule” can be found in several earlier pagan Greek (and Jewish) texts. The famous “Sermon on the Mount” was never held by Jesus (of course, since he never existed), but also because it was actually first produced in the second century AD by Christian priests, assembled from what they assumed were sayings of Jesus in different other texts.

The “birthday” of Jesus is of course unknown, not even the year of his miraculous birth is known. The church just stole the already popular date of the 25th December, which in Antiquity was an immensely popular celebration of the birth of the sungod Mithra, – “the light of the world“.
More on the origin of Christmas – see the here

The story of Jesus was originally an allegorical story based partly on the Jewish exodus myth and Joshua/Jesus ben Nun, successor of Moses, the Jewish Messiah-myth and the widespread pagan myth of the dying and resurrected godman Dionysos-Osiris. Later uneducated Christians in Rome, people without the insight and understanding of the deeper meaning of the texts, started to take these allegorical stories for their face value, and Literary Christianity as we know it was born.

Note:
Much of the writings and research on the Jesus figure is amazingly biased, vague, tendentious and pervaded with wishful thinking.

One should in general be a bit sceptical to Christian scholars who often (obviously) don’t have the necessary distance to their subject and obviously seem to be on a mission to prove the statements in the Bible, no matter what the real evidence say. As Christians they are usually convinced that Jesus did once exist as a real person in the first place, and are just looking for a confirmation.

The reader should of course not take my assertions for granted either, but investigate the sources themselves, also the critical literature. The conclusions are then just a matter of honesty.


The note above needs to be taken seriously because when you do investigate the sources you find them greatly lacking in truth and reliability as follows:

If you were to take on a survey of ancient mythology seeking  to compare the simplistic Enuma Elish–Genesis you will make simple assertions; one must consider the larger body of evidence to seek out the truth. When this is done, distinct patterns emerge: pagan, polytheistic mythology moves in the same direction, whatever the culture—generation by sexual union, conflict among the gods, continuum of gods and earth substance, and the emergent supremacy of one god among the many.The author references their own web page (dang, here we go again, I just wish I was egotistical enough to reference my own writings – wait a minute I do do that- but my pages have references that can be examined and cross-reference and do not consist of my own thoughts alone. http://www.bandoli.no/nooriginaljesus.htm is interesting but confers on many of the so called prior gods some attributes that they did not originally have, but then that would hurt the point the author is trying so hard to make.)

By contrast the narrative of Genesis 1 begins with the one true God who is there at the beginning; there is a clear Creator-creature distinction; there is a straight forward tone about Genesis 1, untainted with the crudities of mythology and showing forth a transcendent God. Hence pagan mythology is basically all of one genre; Genesis is in a step above.

Another important conclusion to emerge from this  type of survey is to expose a simple, but common fallacy, i.e. that if B resembles A, therefore B has borrowed from A. There could be several explanations for any semblance, literary dependence being only one of them. Yet this fallacy has dominated comparative mythology and religion studies.  In the hunt for literary parallels to Genesis—and Christianity generally—everyone makes assumptions that in pagan literature and motifs, there are ‘amazing parallels.’

Finally, the phenomenon of creation stories seemingly “tacked on” to stories about the generation and conflict of gods has considerable plausibility. Accepting Genesis 1 as the true and factual creation story would therefore explain how increasingly garbled versions of creation get circulated independently in differing forms among various ethnic groups in antiquity, and eventually came to be attached to debased, polytheistic myths at some early stage in the post-Flood era. Meanwhile, Genesis preserves the pristine and pure form of the creation narrative.

Let us take for example Hercules as presented on that web page: “Who was born by a mortal virgin mother and had a divine Father, and was known as the “Saviour of the world”? Before he was born his parents wandered to a bigger town, and prophets had foretold his birth and that he would be a king. This instigated a search for the infant Saviour by a leading figure who wanted to kill him. After growing up the Son of God was shown all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain. He also walked on water and when he met his end his mother and his favorite disciple stood by him. He then tells his mother: “Do not cry, I’m going to heaven”. When he dies he utter: “It is finished” and the earth trembles and darkness cover the land. Then he ascended to heaven, and his greatest achievement was to conquer death. “

A god having sexual relations with a human woman is not a parallel for virgin birth, by definition.

Like many Greek heroes and demigods, Hercules fought lots of battles, killed lots of bad guys, etc. He was credited with making the world safe for mankind because he killed many monsters. In exactly what sense do they mean he was the ‘savior of the world’? And I couldn’t find any reference of the actual phrase “savior of the world” being used to describe him.

Out of the nine reference sources (including two college textbooks on Mythology), I couldn’t find any accounts of prophets foretelling Hercules’s birth, or that he would be a king. The closest I could find relates to Heracles (not the same person, as Heracles is the Greek hero from whom the Roman Hercules is derived). According to the Greek legend, Heracles’ mother Alcmene was simultaneously pregnant with Heracles by Zeus and his half brother Iphicles by her husband. Knowing that Heracles would be a descendant of Perseus, Hera tricked Zeus into vowing that the next-born descendant of Perseus would be High King. Zeus did so thinking that Heracles would be born next, but Hera made the goddess of childbirth delay Heracles’ birth while causing another descendant of Perseus to be born prematurely.

The ‘leader who wanted to kill him’ is Hera, Zeus’s jealous wife. Hardly counts as a parallel with Jesus.

I was unable to find any reference to Heracles or Hercules walking on water, or anything that could reasonably be interpreted as close to walking on water such as a frozen lake. His mother isn’t even present at the version of his death I was able to find, and I wasn’t able to find anything approximating ‘it is finished’ in the death story, either.

Let us try another pagan god story: Dionysos

Now, who was the real Son of God, born by a mortal virgin mother, and often presented as the venerated newborn infant, or depicted riding a donkey? He healed the sick and did numerous wonders, among those making fine wine from plain water. He was killed but resurrected from the dead and became immortal. The followers of this God often ate a holy meal in a kind of sacramental union with the deity to achieve immortality after their death. One of this god’s finest achievements was his death, his sacrifice, which delivers the whole human kind.

Every member of the pantheon was a ‘god’ and all the demigods who resulted from Zeus’s numerous trysts. Hardly a comparison with Jesus. And again a result of ‘divine’ fornication, as with Zeus’s other kids.

Because other figures ride donkeys, Jesus can’t? That’s a trivial comparison. And the symbolism of the donkey is hardly the same.

I was unable to find any healing attributed to Dionysus, and he was the god of the vine, but I couldn’t find any accounts of him turning water into wine.

Depending on which myth is under consideration, he either was reincarnated or didn’t die—in the most common version, his mother is killed, leaving the fetal Dionysus behind. Zeus sews the fetus into his thigh and carries him until he is ready to be born. And a lot of the demigods eventually became immortal, but the idea of true bodily resurrection was repugnant to Greeks, which is why Paul had to straighten out the Corinthian Church regarding the resurrection (see 1 Corinthians 15)

I can find no connection between his death and delivering humanity. He was known as a bringer of peace, but this had more to do with him bringing wine and festivals with him.

Now since going through the other mythical figures listed on that web page.  That is what is so great about myths- you can make up things to prove your misguided point and claim it as true.

It’s only rank ignorance, both of the social world of early Christianity, and of the particulars of those other religions, that allows things like this to survive. It’s hard to decide whether to counter these with serious arguments like the above, or with hysterical laughter. They want us to question our faith, and this is the best they have to offer?

In short, only someone who hasn’t done his homework would ever reject Christianity on the basis of pagan parallels. Christianity has been shown to be historically reliable, and to reflect events that actually happened. Even the Jewish opponents of Jesus had to explain away the empty tomb somehow.

Points of contact between Christianity and other religions are damaging to Christianity’s truth claims only if actual borrowings can be proven – not if the parallel features have simply sprung from the same psychological source common to all humans – that is, from the innate religious instinct which Christians regard as a gift of God.

I cannot think of a single case in which Christianity can be shown to have borrowed a core doctrine from another religion. This does not include minor borrowings which everyone admits, such as the dating of Christmas to 25th December (an old Roman sun-festival), or the use of holy water and incense in worship, or the wearing of wedding rings, or dedicating churches to named saints (just as pagan temples were dedicated to different deities).

In such cases, the borrowings were not clumsy or furtive: rather, they were deliberate and unashamed.

Literary Arrangement and the Gospels

Literary Arrangement and the Gospels Of necessary consideration, but not always easy to deal with, in terms of understanding the Gospels, is an ancient literary ideal of arrangement that easily explains why the Gospels might give information in what appears to our eyes to be differing chronological order. In actuality the material may or may not be in chronological order — and we should not make assumptions that it is unless clear chronological or other markers are present.

As we have pointed out elsewhere, the Gospels are ancient biographies. Ancient biographies, because they were not strictly history, arranged material either chronologically or topically, depending on the author’s purpose. Hence the scattering and re-organizing of the Gospel material is recognizable as a normal process. Matthew, Mark and Luke had the “right” within their genre to order material as they pleased.

The ancient rhetoritician Quintilian wrote:

It has sometimes proved the more effective course to trace a man’s life and deeds in due chronological order, praising his natural gifts as a child, then his progress at school, and finally the whole course of his life, including words as well as deeds. At times on the other hand it is well to divide out praises, dealing separately with the various virtues, fortitude, justice, self-control and the rest of them and to assign to each virtue the deeds performed under its influence.

And Samuel Byrskog, in Story as History [212], notes a secular example:

As for speeches, we have the rare opportunity of comparing Tacitus’ version of Claudius’ oration in favour of the admission of Gallic nobles to the Senate with the rather extensive, though discontinuous, fragments of the same speech preserved on a bronze tablet at Lugdunum…While Tacitus strongly rearranges and condenses the speech in order to sharpen the arguments, it is evident that he had some kind of raw material at his disposal….Cicero himself describes Caesar’s commentarii as material from which would-be writers of history could select. Although he subsequently makes clear that historians might prefer the brevity to the “curling irons”, he implies that this kind of information could then be subject to rhetorical elaboration….

This principle can be easily seen to have an extension in Matthew in particular, who has clustered teachings of Jesus but not always chronologically, versus Luke, who has followed the chronological model more closely, and how both have on various occasions tailored a work for a particular audience to make the message intelligible. The bottom line is that difference in arrangement is not always difference in chronology and above all is not to be automatically construed as error.

Keener [Matthew commentary, 16ff] further notes that ancient writers of biographies gave themselves considerable latitude in composition which match those we find among the Gospels. A biographer could start in adulthood (as did Mark; hence, no argument is valid making light of a lack of mention of the virgin birth); they “also had the freedom to rearrange their material topically rather than in chronological sequence” and “could expand or abridge accounts freely”. Ancient historians could also tell the same event differently, even the same author, in different works, to stress an angle they wished to emphasize.

A good example of this paradigm at work would be Luke’s “version” of Jesus’ first sermon in Luke 4:16-30. This is obviously not the same story as found in Mark and Matthew in their chronology, yet it is obviously intended to take the place of the same story. Luke places this story here for thematic, rather than chronological reasons; and the ancient reader would know this and would not raise a fuss when they saw Matthew and Mark report differently.

Luke even shows that he knows this was not Jesus’ first public appearance (for he alludes to work done at Capernaum, which Luke does not report — 4:23) but he has placed it in his Gospel as a sort of “keynote speech” laying out themes Luke will pursue. The speech here summarizes the nature of Jesus’ synagogal preaching (mentioned elsewhere in Luke, but not reported elsewhere in detail). It also serves as an inclusio for the entire Luke-Acts complex, as Luke 4:16-30 shows rejection of the message of salvation by Jews and anticipates its acceptance by Gentiles, while Acts 28:17-28 the anticipation fulfilled.

In close: Consideration of the principles of ancient literary arrangement are an important factor in study and reconciliation of the Gospel accounts.

-JPH

Jesus historical existence

Jesus historical existence

An article in the Washington Post sparked this article, which is a rebuttal to the article written by Raphael Lataster in the Post.  My comments like this. This started from a FB discussion on how the Resurrection of Jesus was false.  That can be found at: https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/04/04/fb-no-such-thing-as-resurrection/

Did a man called Jesus of Nazareth walk the earth? Discussions over whether the figure known as the “Historical Jesus” actually existed primarily reflect disagreements among atheists. Believers, who uphold the implausible and more easily-dismissed “Christ of Faith” (the divine Jesus who walked on water), ought not to get involved.

Numerous secular scholars have presented their own versions of the so-called “Historical Jesus” – and most of them are, as biblical scholar J.D. Crossan puts it, “an academic embarrassment”. As usual most atheists use only part of a quote; the fuller quote is “John Dominic Crossan of the Jesus Seminar grumbles that “the stunning diversity is an academic embarrassment.”  In this he is complaining that there are so many people deviating from actual scripture to create a theory that would provide them with headlines.  Dr Crossan is a very well respected theological scholar (I have several of his books) even though De Paul University is somewhat on the liberal side of theological debates. http://www.johndominiccrossan.com/Biographical%20Summary.htm From Crossan’s view of Jesus as the wise sage, to Robert Eisenman’s Jesus the revolutionary, and Bart Ehrman’s apocalyptic prophet, about the only thing New Testament scholars seem to agree on is Jesus’ historical existence. And here the author goes into a logical fallacy:

Jesus was a wise sage and the author is a very knowledgeable writer

Jesus was a revolutionary and the author is a very knowledgeable writer

Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet and the author is a very knowledgeable writer

Since all three knowledgeable writers disagree

Jesus was none of them.

We can ignore the first paragraph in the article, as it is nothing more than superfluous hype to set you up for the remaining article.  However, when you have two major problems in the next paragraph, one has to wonder why bother reading the remaining article.  I will continue because I made a promise I would for my own intellectual integrity and the hopes that the author might correct his obvious mistakes. But can even that be questioned?

The first problem we encounter when trying to discover more about the Historical Jesus is the lack of early sources. The earliest sources only reference the clearly fictional Christ of Faith.

These early sources, compiled decades after the alleged events, all stem from Christian authors eager to promote Christianity – which gives us reason to question them. We will lump these statements together and prove otherwise as follows: As an atheist from high school to college and a lot like the skeptics quoted above, I was inclined to reject the Gospels as late works of fiction. I considered them to be mythological accounts written well after all the true eyewitnesses were dead. They were late, and they were a lie.  I believed that the Gospels were written in the second century or later and were worthless as to being an eyewitness account. A true eyewitness would have lived and written in the first century. If they were written shortly after 33 AD they would be eyewitnesses, If written nearer to 350 AD they would have been modified by the Council of Laodicea. This logic should provide an answer, since if later in time they would be closer to the church councils and the formal establishment of the Catholic Church there would be good reason to doubt that they were true witnesses to the sufferings of Christ (1 Pet. 5: 1) or that they actually saw Jesus with their own eyes (1 John 1: 1– 3). The closer they appeared to the life and ministry of Jesus, the more seriously I could consider their claims.   For further details of the accuracy and historical timing of the Gospels see: https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/proving-the-gospels/  The authors of the Gospels fail to name themselves, describe their qualifications, or show any criticism with their foundational sources – which they also fail to identify.  It is strange, and I would like to find out someday, why only non-believers do not know who the Gospel writers are, what their qualifications  are (disciples of Jesus) and on what authority they are writing about and for whom (It is easy, really. The first authority has 3 letters and commanded the second authority to spread the word and has only 5 letters- God and Jesus).

Filled with mythical and non-historical information, and heavily edited over time, the Gospels certainly should not convince critics to trust even the more mundane claims made therein.

The methods traditionally used to tease out rare nuggets of truth from the Gospels are dubious.

The criterion of embarrassment says that if a section would be embarrassing for the author, it is more likely authentic. The criterion of embarrassment is one point listed in the Criteria of Authenticity used by academics which also lists: the criterion of dissimilarity, criterion of language and environment, criterion of coherence, and the criterion of multiple attestation, This criterion (embarrassment) is rarely used by itself, Clearly, context is important. Some Biblical scholars have used this criterion in assessing whether the New Testament’s accounts of Jesus’ actions and words are historically probable. Key word SOME. Very few actually. 

Unfortunately, given the diverse nature of Christianity and Judaism back then (things have not changed all that much) (Strange, that a progressive would complain about diversity), and the anonymity of the authors, it is impossible to determine what truly would be embarrassing or counter-intuitive, let alone if that might not serve some evangelistic purpose.

The criterion of Aramaic context is similarly unhelpful. Jesus and his closest followers were surely not the only Aramaic-speakers in first-century Judea.

The criterion of multiple independent attestation can also hardly be used properly here, given that the sources clearly are not independent.  (Misinterpretation of the criteria. Simply put, the more independent witnesses that report an event or saying, the better. A limitation is that some sayings or deeds attributed to Jesus could have originated in the first Christian communities early enough in the tradition to be attested to by a number of independent sources, thus not representing the historical Jesus. Finally, there are some sayings or deeds of Jesus that only appear in one form or source that scholars still consider historically probable. Multiple attestation is not always a requisite for historicity, nor is it enough to determine accuracy by itself)

Paul’s Epistles, written earlier than the Gospels, (https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/proving-the-gospels/) give us no reason to dogmatically declare Jesus must have existed. Avoiding Jesus’ earthly events and teachings, even when the latter could have bolstered his own claims, Paul only describes his “Heavenly Jesus”. (Completely wrong about the timing of Paul’s epistles as you will learn in the above link.)

Even when discussing what appear to be the resurrection and the last supper, his only stated sources are his direct revelations from the Lord, and his indirect revelations from the Old Testament. In fact, Paul actually rules out human sources (see Galatians 1:11-12). (Yes, he received it by divine revelation- which we all know non-believers cannot get a grasp around it but fully understand that amoebas became atheists)

Also important are the sources we don’t have. There are no existing eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus. All we have are later descriptions of Jesus’ life events by non-eyewitnesses, most of whom are obviously biased.

Little can be gleaned from the few non-Biblical and non-Christian sources, with only Roman scholar Josephus (only 1 of three references is in doubt.  The other two references are considered completely accurate)  and historian Tacitus having any reasonable claim to be writing about Jesus within 100 years of his life. (Once again an outright misstatement of the truth. http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/tacitus/index.htm the most accurate review of his work.)

And even those sparse accounts are shrouded in controversy, with disagreements over what parts have obviously been changed by Christian scribes (the manuscripts were preserved by Christians), the fact that both these authors were born after Jesus died (they would thus have probably received this information from Christians), and the oddity that centuries go by before Christian apologists start referencing them.  (see above link for Tacitus- no mention of manuscripts preserved by Christians or Jews for that matter)

Agnosticism over the matter is already seemingly appropriate, and support for this position comes from independent historian Richard Carrier’s recent defence of another theory. Namely, that the belief in Jesus started as the belief in a purely celestial being (who was killed by demons in an upper realm), who became historicised over time. (Carrier is a believer in metaphysical naturalism.  I suggest he spend more time defending his faith in that than criticizing believers in Christ, his faith has a lot more problems in  order to believe it.)

To summarise Carrier’s 800-page tome, this theory and the traditional theory – that Jesus was a historical figure who became mythicised over time – both align well with the Gospels, which are later mixtures of obvious myth and what at least “sounds” historical.

The Pauline Epistles, however, overwhelmingly support the “celestial Jesus” theory, particularly with the passage indicating that demons killed Jesus, and would not have done so if they knew who he was (see: 1 Corinthians 2:6-10).  (Absolutely no ‘demons’ mentioned in any way shape or form.  But I do not expect non-believers to understand, either.)

Humans – the murderers according to the Gospels – of course would still have killed Jesus, knowing full well that his death results in their salvation, and the defeat of the evil spirits.

So what do the mainstream (and non-Christian) scholars say about all this? Surprisingly very little; of substance anyway. Only Bart Ehrman and Maurice Casey have thoroughly attempted to prove Jesus’ historical existence in recent times.

Their most decisive point? The Gospels can generally be trusted – after we ignore the many, many bits that are untrustworthy – because of the hypothetical (i.e. non-existent) sources behind them.

Who produced these hypothetical sources? When? What did they say? Were they reliable? Were they intended to be accurate historical portrayals, enlightening allegories, or entertaining fictions?

Ehrman and Casey can’t tell you – and neither can any New Testament scholar.

Given the poor state of the existing sources, and the atrocious methods used by mainstream Biblical historians, the matter will likely never be resolved. In sum, there are clearly good reasons to doubt Jesus’ historical existence – if not to think it outright improbable. (Believe half-truths, partial quotes out of context and logical fallacies if you want. Or read my article that is fully referenced: https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/proving-the-gospels/)

Proving the Gospels

Proving the Gospels

As an atheist from high school to college and a lot like the skeptics quoted above, I was inclined to reject the Gospels as late works of fiction. I considered them to be mythological accounts written well after all the true eyewitnesses were dead. They were late, and they were a lie.  I believed that the Gospels were penned in the second century or later and were worthless as to being an eyewitness account. A true eyewitness would have lived and written in the first century. If they were written shortly after 33 AD they would be eyewitnesses, if written near to 350 AD they would have been modified by the Council of Laodicea. This logic should provide an answer such as later in time they would be closer to the church councils and the formal establishment of the Catholic Church then there was good reason to doubt that they were true witnesses to the sufferings of Christ (1 Pet. 5: 1) or that they actually saw Jesus with their own eyes (1 John 1: 1– 3). The closer they appeared to the life and ministry of Jesus, the more seriously I can consider their claims to me more true than false.

  • The most significant Jewish historical event of the first century was the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in A.D. 70. The Jews rebelled in A.D. 66, and Titus led a Roman army, which eventually destroyed the Temple AD 70[1].  Jesus had predicted that this would occur and that is recorded in Matthew 24:1 – 3.  No Gospel account records the destruction of the Temple, even though this fact would corroborate Jesus’ prediction.  Even more confusing is no New Testament writing describes the Temple’s destruction, which certainly would have helped in establishing a theological or a historical point. A logical conclusion would be that the Gospels and the New Testament were written before A.D. 70.
  • Not only was the Jerusalem Temple destroyed, but the city of Jerusalem itself was under siege for three years prior to the Temple destruction[2]. No aspect of this three-year siege is described in any New Testament document.  The gospel writers could certainly have pointed to the anguish that resulted from the siege as a powerful point of reference for the many passages of Scripture that address the issue of suffering.  A logical conclusion would be that the Gospels and the New Testament were written before A.D. 66
  • There was another pair of significant events to the new Christian community that occurred years before the siege of Jerusalem. The apostle Paul was martyred in the city of Rome in A.D. 64, and Peter was martyred shortly afterward in A.D. 65[3].  Luke wrote extensively about Paul and Peter in the book of Acts and featured them prominently.  However, he never mentioned anything about their deaths, Paul was still alive (although under house arrest in Rome) at the end of the book of Acts. A logical conclusion would be that the Gospels and the New Testament were written before A.D. 64
  • Luke also featured another important Christian figure from history in the book of Acts. This is the brother of Jesus, James, who became the leader of the Jerusalem church and was described in a position of prominence in Acts 15.  James was martyred in the city of Jerusalem in A.D. 62[4].  Like the deaths of Paul and Peter the execution of James is absent from the biblical account even though Luke described the deaths of Stephen (Acts 7:54 – 60), and James the brother of John(Acts 12:1 -2). A logical conclusion would be that the Gospels and the New Testament were written before A.D. 62
  • Paul appeared to be fully aware of Luke’s gospel as it was common knowledge throughout the Christian community during the time frame A.D. 63 – 64. When Paul wrote his first letter to Timothy he wrote, “The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.  For the Scripture says, ‘You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing’, and ‘The laborer is worthy of his wages’”. (1 Timothy 5:17 – 18).  Paul quoted two passages in Scripture one from the Old Testament and one in the New Testament.    Deuteronomy 25:4 deals with the ox and Luke 10:7 deals with the laborers wages.  Luke’s gospel was already common knowledge and accepted as Scripture by the time this letter was written to Timothy.  Some critics, such as, Bart Ehrman, argue that Paul was not actually the author of 1 Timothy and that it was written much later in history.  They have their right to believe other than what the majority of biblical theologians believe.  They recognize that the earliest leaders of the church were familiar with 1 Timothy at a very early date[5]. A logical conclusion would be that the Gospels and the New Testament were written before A.D. 64

That should be more than enough to discredit many of the claims that the Gospels were written long after Jesus was alive and could not have been from eyewitnesses. But….. non-believers just always have some kind of question about something as they grasp to find anything to discredit what they refuse to believe in. So we will continue with proving the reality of the Gospel writers in future articles.

[1] Flavius Josephus, Complete Works of Flavius Josephus: Wars of the Jews, Antiquities of the Jews, Against Apion, Autobiography, trans. William Whiston (Boston: Mobile Reference), Kindle edition, Kindle locations 7243– 7249.

[2] Barbara Levick, Vespasian, Roman Imperial Biographies (New York: Routledge, 1999).

[3] Adam Clarke, Adam Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1983), commenting on Acts 28: 31.

[4] Josephus, Complete Works of Flavius Josephus, Kindle locations 28589– 28592.

[5] Kenneth Berding, Polycarp of Smyrna’s View of the Authorship of 1 and 2 Timothy, Vigiliae Christianae 54, no. 4 (1999), 349– 360. 39. F. F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1984), Kindle edition, Kindle location 409.

We Were Not Born Atheists or Christian pt 3

We Were Not Born Atheists or Christian pt 3

https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/20/we-were-not-born-atheists-or-christians-pt-2/  to read first.

As I stated in part 1, the five so-called theories of Jesus’ missing body (Swoon, Hallucination, Wrong Tomb, Theft, or a Passover Plot) have been thoroughly debunked.   Based upon the extensive and respectable due diligence of the secular skeptics of God, we can conclusively and unequivocally know the following facts that will be presented.  It is possible to state this because these wise and intelligent scholars do not waste their time disproving the existence of leprechauns or other baseless fairy tales.

These very wise and very careful investigators of the early history of the Eastern Mediterranean culture have concluded:

  • A man named Jesus lived in Jerusalem
  • A man named Jesus was beaten by Roman soldiers and crucified on a cross
  • A man named Jesus was buried in a rock tomb
  • The body of a man named Jesus was no longer in the tomb where he was buried within days of his burial
  • A man named Jesus led a life so profound that he altered the known world.

Now remember, we are not discussing anything presented in the Bible at this time.  The above five points was produced from a great deal of researched ideas of skeptics, atheists, and agnostics.    The bottom line is after some 2,000 years of questioning they cannot help but agree a man named Jesus lived, died was buried, on the third day arose from the grave, lived with his disciples for another 40 days and then ascended to Heaven as they watched.  Jesus’ presence was so life altering that Jew, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, Scientologists, Satanists, and most atheists believe He lived an amazing, respectable, and profound life.   Two thousand years’ worth of studies forever solidifies the above facts.  When all other explanations fail, the impossible becomes possible. Believing the seemingly impossible is possible.

What if it were true?

At this point logic cries out and the irrational becomes rational.  It seems that one must admit that the preponderance of the evidence weighs heavily toward the events of the resurrection as recorded both in and out of the Bible. The resurrection as an event is more likely true than not.  Many wise and educated atheists have had to reluctantly admit after a strong review of all the possible evidence and information that the resurrection is the most plausible and likely explanation.

Many atheists/agnostics claim Christians believe in Jesus because they want to.  I just had that posted to me in a Facebook discussion on basically is God dead.  I wrote, “He has always been and will always be” and received the reply, “He always will be to you, you mean.”  I replied, “To a whole lot more people than you can count.”  He responded three hours later and that entire conversation will be on my blog under FB-Discussions.

I do not believe because I want to.  I believe in Jesus because I can no more deny my very existence than deny the reality of the events as recorded in the Bible and many, many, extra-biblical sources.  Like any logical person I do not want to believe an outlandish story of resurrection.

What if it were true?

So, why don’t you take the time to disprove the resurrection yourself.  Don’t believe what other people have told you to believe in or against.  Search for yourself, look at some Christian websites, buy a couple of books from Amazon and actually read them, if possible, with an open mind.  Use your wisdom because some of your value systems may be threatened.  I am not saying that you will change your mind or attitude, but just as long as you will view the information with as few preconceived notions as possible.

The Myth of My Belief

The Myth of My Belief

god

A myth may be defined as a pre-scientific and imaginative attempt to explain some phenomenon, real or supposed, which excites the curiosity of the mythmaker, or perhaps more accurately as an effort to reach a feeling of satisfaction in place of bewilderment concerning such phenomena. It often appeals to the emotions rather than the reason, and indeed, in its most typical forms, seems to date from an age when rational explanations were not called for.

A difference between Greek mythology and Christianity that is often conveniently overlooked. There are similar events, such as a resurrection, etc. in Greek mythology, but they are not applied to real, flesh and blood individuals, but rather to mythological characters. However, when it comes to Christianity, these events are attached to a specific person the writers knew in time-space dimension of history, the historic Jesus of Nazareth whom they knew personally. And not only that, when they wrote about the events they did so in a way to remind the readers that they themselves had also witness these events.

“If one were to study historically the life of Jesus of Nazareth, you would find a very remarkable man, but not the son of god,” is what has been stated to me often. From this, they will say, “following the ‘modern historical’ approach one would never come to such a thing as a resurrection.” With that line of reasoning, it is true. Let me explain, why.

For many today, the study of history is incorporated with the ideas that there is no God, miracles are not possible, we live in a closed system and there is no supernatural. With these presuppositions, the individuals begin their “critical, open and honest” investigation of history. When they study (assuming they do and not just generalize from preconceived notions) the life of Christ and read about his Miracles or resurrection because we know (not historically, but philosophically) that there is no God, we live in a closed system, miracles are not possible and there is no supernatural. Therefore, these things cannot be. What men have done is to rule out the resurrection of Christ even before they start an historical investigation of the resurrection. These presuppositions are not so much historical biases but, rather, philosophical prejudices. Their approach to history rests on the “rationalistic presupposition” that Christ could not have been raised from the dead. Instead of beginning with the historical data, they preclude it by “metaphysical speculation.”

Kant conclusively showed that all arguments and systems begin with presuppositions; but this does not mean that all presuppositions are equally desirable. It is better to begin, as we have, with presuppositions of method (which will yield truth) rather than with presuppositions of substantive content (which assume a body of truth already). In our modern world, we have found that the presuppositions of empirical method best fulfill this condition; but note that we are operating only with presuppositions of scientific method, not with the rationalistic assumptions of scientism.

So how did I accept Christ? I had biases and prejudices against Him based upon some 30 years of hatred of being forced to getting dressed up and going to a church on Sundays and years of evolutionary instructions and discussing atheism with my college friends. As a radical in the late 60’s, I and a number of friends agreed to meet with some of the “Jesus Freaks” on campus at the local subway shop for a debate. What they did not know was the one making the sub sandwiches was our friend and placed a tab of LSD in each of their subs. A goodly number of years later, I was searching for something that I saw that others had but had no idea how to obtain it. I started to study history, philosophy, and theology. This god/God thing seemed to have something to it, despite my atheistic beliefs, compared to the eastern religions and personal introspection.

I set out to disprove that Jesus was in fact real, but after a careful examination of the evidence and marking done the pros and cons and endless spreadsheets, the results showed that Christ must be who He claimed to be. So-called friends stated that I had found what I wanted to. Not so! I confirmed through extensive and thorough research and study what I had originally wanted to refute. The philosopher Hume would say that historic evidence is invalid because one cannot establish “absolute truth.” I was not looking for absolute truth but rather “historical probability.” The case for Christianity is ultimately a case based on establishing he facticity (the quality or condition of being fact) of certain events. If certain events DID NOT OCCUR, Christianity is false.  Facts do not require the level of a formal mathematical proof. The case for Christianity is never apodictically (beyond dispute ) certain because 100% certainty exits only in matters of deductive logic or pure mathematics.  One cannot demand of religious claims a level of factual certainty not demanded in other discipline.

Remember that Sherlock Holmes declared, “It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts.” That I submit is what all of you should do. Before not believing for the sake of not believing, examine all the FACTS openly and honestly. Then make your decision. Only you and God will know if your made the right choice.

LEM

We Were Not Born Atheists or Christian pt1

We Were Not Born Atheists or Christian pt 1

 

Let us start with the idea that most atheists eventually get around to presenting: “Christians are arrogant to believe they are right.”

Yep, you got it!

Their line of delusional reasoning goes like this: if we believe in a god, how can we know which god is right? Well, as we hope to find out, it comes from the knowledge of the FACTS. Eventually, nonbelievers start to harp on a single line such as, “Will the real God please stand up?”

Bear, with me, let me lay out a few concepts. From a Christian perspective: In this world, there are many things that we can reason from that which is known. Here are just a few: 1) a creator must be vast given the size of the universe; 2) the author must be powerful given the forces holding all things together and in place; 3) the architect must enjoy beauty when we consider our world at every level; and 4) the originator must contain love, as the designer could not instill something in the created being that was not already in the Creator. All of these attributes and more are found in the one person who claimed he was God, lived as if he was God, and performed miracles like God: Jesus.

zombieworship

From the non-believers perspective: “Books I believe in?….s**t man! I believe no books!…I believe what I see.” This was a quote from a non-believer in a post on a non-believers Facebook page. It goes along with “Educated people don’t believe someone rose from the dead.” One needs to define ‘Educated’ because I know many individuals with a great deal of advanced schooling with many of those coveted initials after their name (and who have published many papers and in some instances bestselling books) who would under normal consideration be considered ‘educated.’

I hope the above individual did believe something from the books he certainly had to read in school, even though they were probably biased. I would say that if you have difficulty believing or understanding that someone came back to life (other than in a movie or a video game) after being dead, that would generally mean that you are a logical person who does not believe everything that someone tries to tell you and you are cautious about grandiose claims to fame and the truth.

Nevertheless, if you can remember the news or have read (sorry individual being satirized above) about it online or in a newspaper or magazine you can probably remember some of these things.   Modern technology allows medical professionals to revive individuals within moments of a heart attack that would have been fatal years ago. Some individuals have been stuck under ice for thirty minutes or more but not days later. Some individuals have been in comatose for years and suddenly woken up (‘Kill Bill vol 1 notwithstanding).

But get this: Christians want you to believe that a normal, fairly healthy individual (he was a carpenter by trade) was nearly beaten to death, nailed to a wooden structure, stabbed with a sword through his side, wrapped tightly in a death-shroud from head to toe, laid in a small cave carved out of rock with no medical attention, followed by three days of normal natural tissue decay. Then he suddenly came back to life, and with super human strength rolled a massive boulder away, walked out of the cave without any of the guards noticing and walked some forty miles to appear before his friends for 40 days and proclaim He is the Savior. Right!

pic-the-open-tomb

Nobody, I mean nobody has any personal experience like that and other than that book called the Bible there is no written historical account of any other instance of this sort of thing occurring. Based upon all of the available scientific studies of human endurance, our physical and intellectual understanding of life and death or just plain a logical understanding of reality would allow us to believe something so ridiculous.

Most people would (and have) said that no logical thinking person with any amount of common sense, reason or a rational mind would believe such a story. However, what if it is true?

Some Christians make these claims of truth with nothing more than the words “And you need to believe this to be saved.” This is an indication of the sad state of complacency instead of compassion for a person searching for the TRUTH. It is wise, definitely natural and certainly wise to question a “story” that is as far away from known reality as can be. If we do not question outrageous claims to “truth”, we could fall prey to many things that are more dangerous than asking questions.

An intelligent (and I would presume an ‘educated’ one) normally listens to the evidence, researches and weighs the validity of the evidence and is generally (except for those that are biased and prejudiced) able to alter their opinions based upon the presentation of the new evidence. We can easily understand that no specific knowledge is one hundred percent correct. We can scientifically believe that something is more likely true than not true and we can then react due to our interpretation of the available facts.

I cannot prove that if I jump up, gravity will bring me back down to earth at every single location around the earth because I have not tried to jump throughout the world. Nevertheless, I can believe that I will not float into space based upon the number of times and differing locations that I have jumped up in the air. A story that is thousands of years old about a dead man coming back to life three days later is truly bizarre. However, what if it is true?

Everything we do, we do out of a form of faith. Our faith in events begins by our own experience or someone spending the time to teach us. We continue to have new experiences and various events during our lifespan and from these our faith in various areas begins to grow. Faith begins small and slowly and only grows as we learn to trust that which we put our faith in it. If the majority of what we know holds true, it eventually leads us to do things we would not have attempted in the beginning.

faith_requires_no_proof-693531

We base our belief on available facts and knowledge. That is how we live our lives, faith based on evidences. Christians are no different than the skeptic except they have found the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus more likely true than not. From this initial faith, they follow Jesus believing he will continue to uphold his promises with the main one being Jesus’ resurrection. This trumps the most hardened belief we have that dead people stay dead, so we start with a small faith and allow it to grow.

Once we realize what faith truly consists of, we can grasp that Christian faith does not step outside the normal requirements of daily living. Belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior is not blind faith. Blind faith is a technique of the cults or a slick salesperson who hides the details. People with questionable intentions purposely hold back available information to entice the unwary. The promise of more information is one of the most potent forces on earth. The enticement of experiencing the unusual or hidden is eerily controlling and often overrides our commonsense. Many powerful, intelligent, and successful people have built a path of self-ruin from nothing more than the allure of experiencing the hidden.

There are fascinations that take you further than you want to go, keep you longer than you want to stay, and cost you more than you want to pay. A Christian tries to tell the truth as it is (“ No one comes to the Father except through Me” John 14: 6), will ask you to test the knowledge provided for truthfulness (“ Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God” 1 John 4: 1), and does not run from your questions (“ Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you” Matthew 7: 7). False gods and/ or lies do not want to be questioned. Only truth willingly and openly invites investigation.

Faith in Jesus is not like the cults or other false religions that ask you to believe them simply because they say so. Christian faith is logical, rational, and based upon solid historical data, and the information is available to all regardless of age, education, or financial status. It is common to hear people say that Jesus was a good, virtuous, and wise man. His teachings were profound, his actions were something to imitate, and his love for everyone is something to emulate.

Let us stop and think for a moment. Think of the audacity of someone claiming to be God. A person who claims to be God is either knowingly telling a lie, a self-deceived lunatic, or God. That seems to cover all of the choices.   Normally if someone tells you they are God, either they need serious psychological help or they want us to join some outlandish cult.

No sane and good person claims to be God, accepts praise as if they are God, and tells thousands of people that the only way to Heaven is by believing in him as God unless he is indeed God. To go around stating that Jesus was a ‘good man’ yet not believe he is God is illogical. Given what we know about Jesus, in order to be good, he must be God, or he is an evil genius or a self-deceived lunatic.

However, what if it is true?

Jesus said He represents God the Father, “I don’t speak on my own authority. The Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it” (John 12: 49). Jesus, it appears, is God’s way of filling the natural inabilities of mankind to grasp God. It is similar to trying to visualize eternity; it is enough to make our heads hurt reading about all the weird and unusual things that astrophysicists make up to try to explain what they think is correct.

While belief in an unseen God is difficult, faith in a man rising from the dead is somewhat more challenging. However, that is what we are asked to do, “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10: 9). All of this certainly sounds absurd and is rightfully impossible to believe.

However, what if it is true?

Questioners of God have spent 2,000 years trying to tell the world where the body of Jesus went. Many of these researchers were and are brilliant scientists, in-depth anthropologists, vigilant historians, and various other experts.

These experts have developed many theories as to how Jesus’ body left the tomb. Out of the many considerations, questioners agree at least five hold enough merit to rise to the level of scholarly writing and are worthy of publication. They consider all other theories as farfetched and not worth discussing (these are the experts, so if you don’t believe in any of the five mentioned below, then your theory is just that yours- nobody else is interested in it). The following are the only available intellectual, well researched, scientifically studied, and peer reviewed alternatives to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Not including the resurrection answer given in multiple books of the Bible (keep in mind: the Bible is accepted by serious scholars, at minimum, as a trustworthy historical book), the Koran, several letters written by non-Christians from the first and second century, hundreds of sermons up to the second century where death was commanded if you spoke about Jesus and thousands of live witnesses to the events recorded who passed the story from generation to generation (granted some exaggeration could occur between different families).

  • Swoon: Jesus passed out on the cross and did not die. While in the tomb, he awoke, rolled the sealed boulder guarded by the soldiers away, and walked to his friends’ house, roughly seven miles away after having been beaten and whipped- maybe a miraculous healing of his wounds?
  • Hallucination: The apostles and hundreds of eyewitnesses simultaneously hallucinated that Jesus was alive and heard him teach over a forty day period. (Although some Hindus practiced ‘temple sleep’ the first known discussion of mass hypnosis was by Ibn Sina, a Persian psychologist and physician, who made a distinction between sleep and hypnosis. In The Book of Healing, which he published in 1027, he referred to hypnosis in Arabic as al-Wahm al-Amil, stating that one could create conditions in another person so that he/she accepts the reality of hypnosis. This makes more since then everybody receiving a hallucinogenic drug and having the same ‘trip’).
  • Wrong Tomb: Within three days of burying Jesus, the apostles and disciples of Jesus walked to the graveyard, but instead of stopping at Jesus’ grave, they peered into someone else’s tomb. Within a few hours of their friend and teacher and compatriot for the past three years being buried, they forgot the location (not that it was in a large gravesite and was donated by a friend). However the momentary lapse of short-term memory didn’t stop them from preaching and teaching about his resurrection and eventually some of them died gruesome deaths for that simple act of forgetfulness.

Grave-with-Stone

  • Theft: The devil made them do it! Either the Roman guards stole the body (contrary to what Biblical and non-biblical texts indicate Pilates order was), or Joseph of Arimethea, the owner of the tomb, stole it so he could be buried in it later, or the apostles and disciples stole it to keep Christianity spreading or the Pharisees and Sadducees stole it too prevent the spread of Christianity. Place your bets as to which one makes the most sense.
  • Passover Plot: During the Last Supper, Jesus and the apostles came up with a plan to sneak a sleeping agent into the bitter wine the guards would give him –presuming they also knew he would be beaten and whipped horribly. The medicine would place him in a comatose state (where he would not feel the pain he was in) and the guards would believe he was dead and the apostles would get him out of the tomb and heal his wounds and the religion would have their risen Savior.

passoverplot

So now, we can wait a while for part two. There will not be any reason to debunk these theories due to the obvious flaws. Whether that statement is fact or fantasy is irrelevant.

Nest in series: https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2016/03/20/we-were-not-born-atheists-or-christians-pt-2/

A great debate

Have ever thought to yourself, “What the fuck, who actually says that?” while looking at Facebook? Then you’re probably familiar with the blogger Matt Walsh.

Matt Walsh the blogger—not to be confused with Matt Walsh the actor—was a conservative talk radio host before he turned to blogging full time in 2012. A devout Catholic with a severe fundamentalist approach to theology, in 2014 he was adopted by The Blaze as a regular contributor. Since then his wonderful articles, with titles such as “The Duggars Aren’t Hypocrites. Progressives Are” and “Calling Bruce Jenner a Woman Is an Insult to Women” have surged in popularity.

Walsh, a 28-year-old married father of two from the Baltimore area, writes with a level of arrogance that makes Bill O’Reilly look like a monk. As the mighty defender of the majority, he offers a much-needed perspective for heterosexual, white, American men. Walsh is the cool Christian millennial for oppressed conservatives everywhere. He drinks! He smokes! He has tattoos! He’s not like those other stuffy right-wingers. If you feel like today’s conservative Christian pundits are just too kind and tolerant, don’t worry: Walsh thinks Christians should be more judgmental.

Pandering to the masses of right-wing fundamentalists, Walsh responds to current issues with a degree of moral outrage that asserts the stupidity and wrongness of anyone who disagrees with him, regularly touting that “liberals” and “progressives” are the ultimate enemy against God and country. Wait, what if you’re a Christian and a progressive? Don’t raise your hand, because Matt Walsh doesn’t think you really exist: he’s fully prepared to determine whether you’re a Christian or not. But his perspectives aren’t actually based in theological truth, much less Christian love.

I’ve taken some of Walsh’s more asinine viewpoints and put them side-by-side with passages from the Bible. I ask, and attempt to answer, in all sincerity: What would Jesus think?

Matt Walsh Thinks Transgender People Are Ill. Jesus Said They Should Live the Way They Want.

Walsh doesn’t just believe transgender people should have equal rights; he believes they aren’t real. In his most recent article discussing Caitlyn Jenner’s debut in Vanity Fair, Walsh wrote that her transition was an “appropriation of womanhood” and described his horror as he was forced to sit through descriptions of her photo shoot on ESPN:

You know, if I want to be preached at by humorless progressive gasbags, I don’t need the worldwide leader in sports. I have Comedy Central for that.

In another article about Jenner, Walsh described being transgender as “an illusion, a sickness, and a burden.” When Planet Fitness made headlines this spring by revoking a woman’s membership when she complained about a transgender woman in the ladies’ locker room, Walsh accused them of not respecting the privacy and safety of women. He also thinks that fighting transphobia is going to kill America, pretty much:

If progressives can wield the power to demolish and remake even the definition of “man” and “woman” in their ideological image, then they have achieved a total and irreversible cultural victory. They have reached into the universe and reshaped reality itself. They have become gods, or at least that’s the kind of power we give them. You can blab on and on about economics and foreign policy, but if we live in a country where confusion, perversion, and self-worship reign supreme, what’s the point? America will already be dead.

Where does Walsh’s self-assurance come from? Certainly not Christianity. The words and concepts for transgender individuals don’t exactly appear in the Bible. While many fundamentalists take this to mean that God intended all people to be cisgender and heterosexual, that does not mean that there were only binary gender systems in place. In fact, in Matthew 19:11-12, Jesus addresses the subject directly:

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

I would argue that Jesus himself was not only aware of people who did not identify their gender by their biological sex, but that he actually encouraged those individuals to live in the way they felt most comfortable for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let that sink in for a moment. But Walsh argues, of course, that these are not real people, despite the fact that Jesus Christ stated otherwise.

Matt Walsh Thinks Women Belong in the Kitchen. Jesus Thought They Should Be Elevated to the Status of Men.

Walsh believes that his wife’s role is at home rolling him cigars, pouring his bourbon, and raising his children, while his role is to stay at home beating out angry words on a keyboard to affirm bigots’ poorly structured worldviews. Because that’s masculine, and only men should do masculine things. He claims to value the complementary roles that feminism offers, but not really. In one post, he scoffs at couples who live by “egalitarian principles” and charges men to stop letting women be the boss of them:

So, fellas, your wife is not your boss. Or if she is, she shouldn’t be. And, if I may be so bold, I doubt very much that she wants to be.

To women, he writes that incompetent husbands shouldn’t have to earn their wives’ respect, because it’s a woman’s job to make her man feel special:

Every once in a while, I think we should talk about what wives need to do. And here it is. This, above all else. Respect your husbands. Even when he doesn’t deserve it.

In the same post, he bemoans the fact that women these days just aren’t being brought up right:

Society tells our daughters that men are boorish dolts who need to be herded like goats and lectured like school boys. Then they grow up and enter into marriage wholly unprepared and unwilling to accept the Biblical notion that “wives should submit to their husbands” because “the husband is the head of the wife.”

Girls need to know their place right from the start! They have specific gender roles for which they are destined. What are women not destined for, according to Walsh? Pastoring. Being accommodated by your employer during pregnancy. Birth control. The military.

Are you a religious person who is also a feminist? Matt Walsh doesn’t think so. You have to choose, he writes in his post, “Christian women, feminism is not your friend.” Under the guise of “education” he attempts to mansplain why feminism—in all its forms—is a destructive force for humanity, and that if you consider yourself a feminist, you’re ruining your marriage and you don’t love your children:

So I urge you: unbind yourself from the bondage of this term that’s become inexorably tied to a demonic dogma that obliterates the unity of the family, drives a wedge between a wife and her husband, and digs a giant chasm between a mother and her child.

Many Christians, including Walsh, take the approach that women should be submissive to men based on some of Paul’s letters, such as Ephesians 5. These letters, written to specific churches in a specific time period, in no way indicated support for the system of patriarchy in our churches and political systems today: Paul himself said all people were equal in Christ in Galations 3:28—

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Elsewhere, Paul also instructed women to keep their heads covered (1 Corinthians 11:6) not to wear jewelry (1 Timothy 2:9) and remain totally silent during church (1 Corinthians 14:34) but those practices seem to have fallen to the wayside—I suppose those are no longer necessary in order to keep women nice and submissive.

By contrast, Jesus’ teachings and interactions with women gave them voices and dignity. Despite the fact that it was extremely controversial for rabbis to even speak to a woman, he did so with regularity. From his conversation with the Samaritan woman that broke through ethnic boundaries (Jews and Samaritans were enemies) to the inclusion of Susanna, Joanna, and other women involved in his ministry, he broke through convention of the time in a bold and radical way.

The most prominent example of Jesus’ adherence to the idea that women should be elevated to the status of men came by way of Mary and Martha, two of his most devoted female followers. When Jesus is teaching, Mary is sitting at his feet, listening. Martha scolds her, and tells her to get to her chores—washing and cleaning, a woman’s duty—and Jesus gently corrects her in Luke 10:41-42—

“Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

To Jesus, it was better that a woman should be involved, educated, and informed: given the same respect and honor as any of his male disciples. Not just toiling away in the kitchen.

Matt Walsh Thinks Gay People are Harmful. Jesus Told His Followers to Stop Being So Judgmental.

“The gays” are probably Walsh’s No. 1 enemy. He doesn’t believe it should be illegal to discriminate against them, he accuses them of the “destruction of the nuclear family,” and he insists that if you harbor gay feelings, you should live a life devoid of intimacy and pleasure and simply choose a different lifestyle. Regardless of the fact that he’s never actually experienced same-sex attraction, he feels qualified enough to order those who do to suppress the urge the same way you repress feelings of anger while doing something you hate (like reading Matt Walsh’s blog).

Jesus said absolutely nothing on the topic of homosexuality, and other clobber verses have been reinterpreted as not being as bigoted as originally thought. Even mainstream evangelicals are accepting same-sex couples into their congregation. But it doesn’t matter to Walsh, who will use any excuse for his obvious disdain of homosexuals in order to remain prejudiced against them.

Worst of all, perhaps, is his stance on gay adoption in his post “Gay Adoption Might Be Good for Gay Activists, But It’s Terrible for Children.” In it, he takes studies that indicated two-parent families were more beneficial to children than single-parent families, and attempted to make it sound as if that somehow proved the ineffectiveness of gay parenting and gay adoption. He likens gay adoption to near child abuse:

For [the children’s] sake, gay adoption should be illegal in every state. There are all kinds of rules in place determining who can adopt children and who can’t. It’s only for political reasons that we move gays from the “can’t” list to the “can.” It has nothing to do with the welfare of the children, as there is, from that perspective, not a single good reason to allow gay people to raise kids.

That’s a pretty shocking perspective to hear from a pro-life Catholic; especially considering all of the Bible verses that command people to care for orphans, like James 1:27—

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

The fact of the matter is this: gays and lesbians adopt far more often than heterosexual couples. 21.2 percent percent of same-sex couples have adopted children, compared to 4.4 percent of married, opposite-sex couples. That’s a huge difference. By those statistics, gays and lesbians are doing far more to aid orphaned children than heterosexual couples.

Matt Walsh Thinks Poor People are Lazy and Uneducated. Jesus Says the Kingdom of God Belongs to Them.

Fiscal conservatives always believe they have the best grasp on economics, and Walsh is no different. During the fast food strikes last month where workers protested for $15-an-hour minimum wage, Walsh delivered an article with his enlightened opinion: “Fast Food Workers: You Don’t Deserve $15 an Hour to Flip Burgers, and That’s OK.” This is a viewpoint shared by many, but Walsh’s article takes special care to degrade and devalue people working in the fast food business:

It’s come to my attention that many of you, supposedly in 230 cities across the country, are walking out of your jobs today and protesting for $15 an hour. You earnestly believe — indeed, you’ve been led to this conclusion by pandering politicians and liberal pundits who possess neither the slightest grasp of the basic rules of economics nor even the faintest hint of integrity — that your entry-level gig pushing buttons on a cash register at Taco Bell ought to earn you double the current federal minimum wage.

It’s clear that Walsh has never actually talked to a family whose entire livelihood depends on fast food workers’ income. He thinks it’s a temporary situation that can easily be cured by “working hard” and “getting an education,” despite the fact that half a million people with college degrees now work for minimum wage. And he easily ignores the fact that fast food workers regularly have their minimum wages stolen, and in fact, the minimum wage at fast food restaurants costs taxpayers $7 billion a year. Common sense would tell us that, while America’s rich are wealthier than ever, all wages across the board should be increased to allow people to survive without government benefits and to help shrink the increasing income gap. Anyone who practices Christianity, a religion that heavily emphasizes care and value of the poor, would at least agree that people deserve a living wage, right?

Nope, not Walsh. He demonizes the poor with a level of ease that would make Fox News proud and make Jesus weep. The cruelty and ignorance in which he addresses economic issues not only goes against half of Jesus’ ministry, but is in direct defiance of the Roman Catholic Church, of which Walsh is a member. Pope Francis, an outspoken critic of greedy American economic policies, stated:

Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed.

Walsh speaks out against abortion with regularity, but assuming that a fast food worker became pregnant, he would theoretically be against this child receiving government benefits or its mother receiving a living wage after her likely unpaid maternity leave. That’s not pro-life; that’s pro-birth.

He’s the sort of Christian who follows the “God helps those who help themselves” logic, despite the fact that the saying never appears in the Bible. Here’s what does appear, in Proverbs 31:8-9:

Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Jesus, son of God, chose to manifest himself in the form of a simple fisherman and chose to live a life of poverty, in order to identify more closely with those who needed his message the most. It influenced all of his commands and teachings, as he states in Matthew 5:42—

Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

When Matt Walsh is more concerned with “the government” taking his money to make sure poor people don’t die from starvation or lack of medical attention than he is with actually trying to better their lives, he is truly in direct defiance of the words of Jesus.

Matt Walsh Thinks Black Protesters are Violent Criminals. Jesus Flipped Over Tables When He Saw Injustice.

As a white man with relative privilege, Walsh obviously has a lot to say about how black people should be protesting, what they should be angry about, and what constitutes racism. Who better to tell an entire racial group how to behave than a smug blogger with no empathy? Not Jesus, who protested economic injustice by overturning tables in the temple. Surely if anyone understands the systematic oppression of blacks throughout American history and is qualified to understand their reactions to it, it’s a conservative white dude!

In his post, “Hey Ferguson Protestors: Justice Has Been Done, But You Never Wanted Justice” he called out the black community in a show of stunning racism:

Look, protestors, if you’re not ready to go home, if you still want to protest something, why not protest the culture that encourages young black men to act like Michael Brown? Why not protest the thousands of black men who kill black men every year? Why not protest the black men who kill cops every year, or have you convinced yourselves that such violence is always justified? Why not protest the black men who abandon their families and create the chaotic family situations that lead to these tragedies? Why not protest the black rappers who actively teach young men like Michael Brown to behave like bullies and gangsters? Why not protest the infantilizing white liberals who treat minorities like children who can’t be expected to take responsibility for their actions?

Here we have the typical Fox News arguments pointing out black-on-black violence and painting them all as cop-killers, gangster rappers, and absentee fathers.

He doesn’t mention the number of unarmed people killed by cops since 1999, or the fact that blacks are killed by cops at a higher rate than whites. The enduring racist stereotypes of black fathers are blatantly untrue: 70 percent of black fathers reported bathing, diapering, or dressing their children every single day.

The patronizing and condescending manner in which Walsh feels comfortable addressing the black community is a cause for concern, because he’s far from being the only conservative to do so. For every right-wing Christian who bemoans the existence of “thugs” in their community, it further divides our society and and promotes the continued existence of racism in this country.

As a Jew living in an empire under Roman rule, Jesus himself was a victim of institutionalized prejudice. The Hebrew people were marginalized and oppressed, having to operate under the laws of Rome in order to practice their customs and religion. They were tolerated as long as they didn’t step out of line, but they were certainly not elevated to the high status of everyday Roman citizens: a chilling parallel to how blacks are treated in American society today.

When Walsh, who lives in Baltimore, complains about the violence and crime that began once a subway was built to bring “inner city” people into his suburban mall, when he compares the protestors to animals, when he has the gall to say that people who live under the extreme poverty of the Inner Harbor aren’t experiencing oppression—not only is he wrong, but he’s excessively brutal. It’s clear he holds nothing but contempt for the problems of minorities. The lack of compassion is directly in contrast to the words of Jesus in Matthew 25:45 where he reminds us in a parable to always seek out injustice and work to defeat it, saying that failing to do so is the same thing as failing to serve Christ:

He will reply, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.”

A little understanding would go a long way. Unfortunately, Walsh only offers shock value, not actual value.

Walsh may continue to carve out his place as the new face of conservatism (and the bane of your social media feeds). But let’s not be mistaken: he is not representative of Christianity.

The sort of hateful, vile speech found in Walsh’s writing is far more reminiscent of the legalistic Pharisees than of anything Jesus said. Walsh may be the hipster manifestation of Rush Limbaugh, but he’s definitely not channeling the God he claims to serve.

Unlike Walsh, I won’t presume to determine whether or not he’s a “real” Christian: that’s not up for me to decide. But I can assure you that Jesus would not approve of almost anything that he says. If Walsh wants to portray himself as a misogynistic, homophobic, racist bigot—by all means, he’s free to do so. But in supporting his outdated political theories with the words of Jesus Christ—the humble, radical, progressive feminist who fought injustice and brought mercy—he brings together two viewpoints that are simply incompatible.

 

Here is one response from the Gawker: Erzulie

I love real Matt Walsh. How dare this choad share his name? (choad is a variant of the word choda (penis) which comes from the Hindi word (chodna)) She can’t even use her own name but fancies hersekl as the Vodou, Haitian African spirit of love, beauty, jewelry, dancing, luxury, and flowers.

Or this one:

SerHourneyReaver

Sigh, it really pains me to see hate filled bags of angry shit identify as Christians as a platform to spew their garbage when there are clear contradictions from the very book they claim to defend right in their dumb faces. I don’t know how they can continue on with Christ’s literal words in front of them…claiming differing interpretations maybe? Thanks for countering this human trash Ms. Martin, you’re doing the Lord’s work.

Take a guess at what his moniker means.   And he shows real compassion for his fellow human, a common illiberal trait. And his website is a dummy one so that he can post his vile comments and not worry about anyone posting a response back to him. That’s the way to be held accountable.

 

********************

Dear Jennifer Martin at Gawker,

There’s an old saying in the blogging world that goes something like this: “You know you’ve hit the big time when a juvenile, low rent, clickbait gossip website does a hit piece on you.” Or maybe I just made that up. I guess it’s my attempt at finding the silver lining in your lengthy screed, which Gawker published yesterday, detailing all of the reasons why I’m a terrible person.

The title: “Jesus Would Hate This Christian Blogger Just as Much as You Do.”

You run through the familiar progressive script, assigning me the requisite labels of homophobic, transphobic, bigoted, misogynistic and so forth. Unsure of your arguments and unable to engage in a fair discussion, you throw these names around to compensate.

As if pulling the whole blustering tirade from a can of processed liberal rhetoric, you even make all of the obligatory references to Fox News, Bill O’Reilly, and Rush Limbaugh.

I’m not offended by these remarks — I struggle to feel terribly injured when someone derisively compares me to the most successful broadcaster in the history of the world  — but I am bored to death by them.

“You’re a conservative? FOXNEWSBILLOREILLYRUSHLIMBAUGHSEANHANNITY! Ohhh take that!” Seriously, it’s been that same spiel since, like, 1997. It might be time to update the insult arsenal.

Anyway, I suppose this is just left wing operating procedure and I can’t very well hold a website with a “This week in tabloids” feature to a high standard of ingenuity.

For your own sake, though, I hope you eventually come to realize that by standing in your ideological fortress, indiscriminately hurling terms like “racist” at anything outside the walls, you have utterly emptied these words of any meaning at all (except for “transphobic,” which never meant anything to begin with).

But it doesn’t appear that you were really trying to say anything meaningful, electing to charge out of the gate in the first sentence with some super hip vulgarity:

Have [you] ever thought to yourself, “What the f**k, who actually says that?” while looking at Facebook? Then you’re probably familiar with the blogger Matt Walsh.

I shouldn’t be surprised. After all, as another saying goes, “if you bob for apples in a Port-a-John, all you’ll end up with is hepatitis and a mouth full of crap.” I made that one up too, but it means when I wander into the godforsaken sewer of the internet expecting something mature and intelligent, all I’m going to get is vitriol and fourth grade put-downs, which is mostly what you and your commenters delivered.

I’m not interested in addressing all of them specifically, or defending my honor from a defamatory rag that openly solicits third hand rumors and reprints them as facts. Indeed, a site like yours giving moral lectures is a bit like a strip joint hosting etiquette classes. And I’m equally as uninterested in pointing out every blatant contradiction, although I’d be remiss if I didn’t highlight the irony of this line:

But [Walsh’s] perspectives aren’t actually based in theological truth, much less Christian love.

That’s right. You wrote a whole piece about why Jesus “hates” me, and still found the time to sermonize about “Christian love.” This is a common feature of American liberalism. Heap hate and scorn on all who oppose you — and then chide them for being hateful.

Mother Teresa, you ain’t.

Heap hate and scorn on all who oppose you — and then chide them for being hateful.

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And, though you’ve assumed the authority to speak for Him, you ain’t Jesus, either. The very fact that you ascribe hatred to the all loving Lord of Creation reveals your severe theological confusion. Unless, perhaps, the title was just meant for shock value, which is a cheap tactic only I would use:

Walsh only offers shock value, not actual value.

Unlike you, I would never deign to add to Holy Scripture, but there’s a part of me wondering whether Gawker — a website that raised money to buy a video of Rob Ford smoking crack — bemoaning the use of “shock value” is a harbinger of the Apocalypse.

At any rate, cheap shocks would be preferable to outright fabrications, which are peppered generously throughout the diatribe.

In an effort to debunk my assertions that the state of the black family is in disarray, you linked to this study and insisted that such claims are racist.

The enduring racist stereotypes of black fathers are blatantly untrue: 70 percent of black fathers reported bathing, diapering, or dressing their children every single day.

Either you were too lazy to read the report you provided, or you read it and misrepresented it. Either way, the study says, “black fathers who live with their children are just as involved as other dads who live with their kids.” The issue, as you know, is not the involvement of black fathers who live with their kids, but the large number of black fathers who don’t.

Is this what passes for supporting an argument over at Gawker? Link to an article that undermines it in the first sentence?

Still, I wouldn’t be so concerned with all of the lies and contradictions if you hadn’t pulled Jesus into this. Attack me all you want. Call me a mean guy and a bad Christian and the super villain of the blogosphere and whatever else.  That’s a fine topic, albeit a rather boring one, even for a site that regularly publishes content like “Ed Sheeran’s Uncle Jim Sounds Like A F**king Idiot.”

However, in your valiant attempt to discredit some insignificant guy on the internet, you defiled the Holy Scripture, ripped 2,000 years of Christian teaching to shreds, and turned Jesus Christ into a glorified Gender Studies professor.

Jesus Christ—the humble, radical, progressive feminist who fought injustice and brought mercy…

The spitballs you shot at me are irrelevant, but your molestation of the Bible needs to be addressed.

Like progressive Christians tend to do, you tore passages and verses out of context and strangled and contorted them with a violent passion, hoping to remold the Word of God into the Word of Marx. In one especially embarrassing moment, you claim that Jesus made a scene in the temple because He wanted to send an economic message:

Jesus, who protested economic injustice by overturning tables in the temple.

This isn’t so much “out of context” as it is a ridiculous bald faced lie. Christ was not driving the money changers out of His Father’s house because they represented “economic injustice.” He did it because they were turning the holy temple into a market place:

“When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.” (John 2:13)

Zeal for His house. Not zeal for progressive fiscal policies. He chased them from the temple because they were desecrating the sacredness of God by using Him for their own measly gains, which is precisely what you’ve done.

In another section, to make the case that Jesus is pro-gay marriage, you point to the most misquoted and misappropriated phrase in human history: “Don’t judge.”

Matt Walsh Thinks Gay People are Harmful [But] Jesus Told His Followers to Stop Being So Judgmental

Sorry, Jennifer, but Jesus never said “stop being judgmental,” neither did He categorically command His followers to refrain from all types of judging. This would have been a nonsensical statement, considering “judge” means “form a conclusion about.” I feel quite confident that Christ never intended to prevent anyone from forming conclusions. In fact, He goes to great lengths to instruct us on just how to form them properly:

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.(John 7:24)

Judge with righteous judgment. This is a commandment. An instruction. Judge. Use your judgment and judge. God gave us a conscience, a will, a brain, and the Word, and then he told us how to use them. That’s what judgment is.

But not satisfied to wield Jesus’ admonitions against poor judgment as an instrument to bludgeon His other commands into smithereens, you go on to profess that homosexuality isn’t a sin because Jesus never specifically condemned it.

Jesus said absolutely nothing on the topic of homosexuality…

Irrelevant. And also untrue.

Both Corinthians and Romans clearly categorize homosexual sex as sinful:

Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6)

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper. (Rom 1:26)

You attempt to drive a wedge between Christ and His Word by ignoring these passages because Paul wrote them. This is another vicious heresy. Christ is the Word made flesh (John 1:14) and all that is contained in Scripture is infallibly true because it was spoken by God through the men who composed it. To reject the Pauline letters and cling only to the Gospels is to suggest that Scripture is not divinely inspired and thus erase any reason to believe the Gospels in the first place.

Of course, even if we look solely at the Gospels, you’re still wrong:

And He answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning “made them male and female,” and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? (Matthew 19:4)

Conspicuously, He never said “wife or husband.” He said “a man shall be joined to his wife.” Period. He couldn’t have made it any more clear.

Speaking of God creating them male and female, your most impressive feat of Scriptural mutilation came in the section about “transgenders.” Taking exception to the fact that I humbly agree with Jesus’s opinions about God making us male and female — as opposed to male and female and shemale — you contend that Christ never meant to enforce “binary gender systems” at all:

While many fundamentalists take this to mean that God intended all people to be cisgender and heterosexual, that does not mean that there were only binary gender systems in place.

You go on to quote Matthew 19, which says:

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

Comporting ”eunuch” with “transgendered” is an act of distortion so flagrant that I suffered an immediate migraine upon reading it. A eunuch, I can report with certainty, is not a cross dresser. Christ is here referring to men who have been castrated or who were born genitally deformed or sterile. This is both the historic and present definition of the term, and the only one that makes sense.

When Christ mentions those who “live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom,” He is clearly discussing those who choose to be celibate. Again, both traditional sexuality and “binary gender systems” are plainly enforced by Scripture. Jesus is giving men two choices: find a woman and get married, or live a celibate life. Never once does He add “become a woman” or “fornicate with men” to the list of acceptable options.

Those are Christ’s actual commands, which are quite at odds with Christ’s commands as told by Gawker Media, Inc.

Crucially, the central theme of your various apostasies, and indeed the centerpiece of all of Progressive faux-Christendom, can be found in this section of the article:

Matt Walsh Thinks Transgender People Are Ill [But] Jesus Said They Should Live the Way They Want

…I would argue that Jesus himself was not only aware of people who did not identify their gender by their biological sex, but that he actually encouraged those individuals to live in the way they felt most comfortable…

Well, that about sums it up, doesn’t it? Here we arrive at the dividing line between what you call “fundamentalist Christianity” and this new progressive abomination you and many others have concocted. This is why you despise true Christianity with such a passion. This is why you’ve eagerly skimmed through Scripture, selected random phrases here and there, divorced them from the whole, and attempted to build a new faith from the dismembered parts.

Jesus rebuilt the temple in three days through the miracle of His resurrection (John 2:19), but we have neither the power to resurrect ourselves nor the authority to write a new Gospel and instill in it the fullness of Truth. The gospel we write is dead, and it can bring only death to those who follow it.

Your gospel — the Gospel according to 21st century American liberalism – boils down to what you say right here: Live the way you want. Do what makes you comfortable.

This may be a great mantra for a gay pride bumper sticker or a t-shirt at a rock festival, but it doesn’t even vaguely resemble anything Jesus ever said. Instead, Our Lord told us to abandon sin (John 8:11); to reject materialism (Matthew 19:21); to stay loyal to our spouses and to not even think lustful thoughts about another (Matthew 5:27); to give up everything, even our lives (Matthew  16:25). From the Garden of Eden to the Sermon on the Mount, from the Ten Commandments to Christ’s exhortations to the apostles before He ascended, from each verse to the next, screaming out of every page and chapter, comes this unmistakable and sometimes terrifying and always challenging message: “Do what makes you holy, no matter how it makes you feel.”

“Do what makes you holy, no matter how it makes you feel.”

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Not only did Christ never whisper the faintest suggestion that our lives should be governed by our wants and our comforts, but every command and call to action was, and is, intended to specifically abolish that sinful attitude. What you are advancing isn’t just a misinterpretation of Christianity, but the antithesis of it.

Satan rebelled against God because he wanted to serve himself above all. Liberalism, particularly Christian liberalism, continues that rebellion to a degree never before witnessed among mortal beings.

That’s why I despise your ideology – not you, I love you because you are a child of God — I despise liberalism because it is a lie that convinces people to live according to their desires instead of the Truth. It denies all that stands in the way of its own carnal fulfillment. It takes our eyes away from what is sacred and turns us inside out, where all we can see is the darkness of ourselves severed from the Creator.

The only thing that Jesus hates is sin because sin leads his sheep astray. By using Christ’s words to justify immorality and advance untruths, you are a shepherd scattering and destroying His flock (Jeremiah 23:1). Jennifer, that is what Jesus hates. You are lying about him, and He hates it:

There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community. (Proverbs 6:16)

Notice that I don’t say any of this as a perfect man. I am flawed and weak. I have suffered the devastating pain and confusion of betraying God and going down my own path in spite of Him. Yes, I’ve never been plagued with same sex attraction, I’ve never been burdened by the delusion of “transgenderism,” I’ve never had an abortion, etc., but I have sinned in my own ways. Why would I — how could I, how could anyone — sit by and let our culture promote sin as the way to happiness when I have known the despair that such separation from the Lord brings?

It’s only necessary to harp on some of these issues — gay marriage, abortion — because these are the severe evils people like you actively encourage. These sins have their own interest groups, their own marketing teams. That’s why they have to be particularly engaged, because they are being particularly pushed.

Am I hateful for pushing back?

No, it is hateful to stay silent. It is hateful to lead the flock further astray for the sake “comfort” or “pleasure” or whatever hollow reward.

It is hateful to tell people to live how they want.

That is hate, Jennifer.

And it’s dripping from your every word.

I’ll be praying for you.

Sincerely,

Matt

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You make up your mind. Who is the calculating, polite, intellectual, and who is the hate filled irrational besmirchers of filth and half truths.

 

Why believe in Christianity

Why believe in Christianity part 11 to 15

Ok it has been a couple of weeks since I wrote the last “Why believe in Christianity_part_7-10”. You remember the series, I am describing all of the reasons why people would not or should not have become Christians, all the political, social and economic reasons it would not be attractive to either the average person or the elite of that time. Why would anybody want to follow Jesus Christ – unless of course there was something in it that must have made sense?

Factor #11 — Do Not Rely on Women!

The non-believers have brought this point as a last attempt to discredit Christianity whenever we get into a deep discussion. Therefore, it bears repeating and elaboration. If Christianity wanted to succeed, it should never have admitted that women were the first to discover the empty tomb or the first to see the Risen Jesus. It also never should have admitted that women were main supporters (Luke 8:3- and Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod’s household manager, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their means.) or lead converts (Acts 16 – a long chapter that has many people mentioned).

In the ancient world, many have pointed out; women were regarded as “bad witnesses”. I need to emphasize that this was not a peculiarity as it would be seen today, but an ingrained stereotype of that time and that civilization. As Malina and Neyrey note in their book “Portraits of Paul”, gender in antiquity came laden with “elaborate stereotypes of what was appropriate male or female behavior. (p.74)”

Portraits_of_Paul

Quintilian[i] said that where murder was concerned, males are more likely to commit robbery, while females were prone to poisoning.

We find such sentiments absurd and politically incorrect today — but whether they are or not, this was ingrained indelibly in the ancient mind. “In general Greek and Roman courts excluded as witnesses women, slaves, and children…According to Josephus… [women] are unacceptable because of the ‘levity and temerity of their sex’.” (p. 82) Women were so untrustworthy that they were not even allowed to be witnesses to the rising of the moon as a sign of the beginning of festivals.

DeSilva

deSilva

also notes (p.33 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0830815724/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=3486446373&hvqmt=b&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_1jju5nyqyh_b a book worth getting) that a woman and her words were not regarded as “public property” but should rather be guarded from strangers — women were expected to speak to and through their husbands (not much different from modern day Islam). A woman’s place was in the home, not the witness stand, and any woman who took an independent witness was violating the honor code.

It would have been much easier to put the finding of the tomb on the male disciples, or someone like Cleophas[ii] or even Nicodemus[iii], find the tomb first, or to mediate the witness through Peter or John. However, they were apparently stuck with this truth — and Christianity apparently overcame yet another stigma.

 

Factor #12 — Don’t Rely on Bumpkins, Either!

However, before you go out and join a Christian group, I have more to deter you. It was not just women who had a problem. Peter and John were dismissed based on their social standing (Acts 4:13- Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.)

This reflects a larger point of contention among the ancients. I have noted the problem of having Jesus hail from Galilee and Nazareth before (https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/why-believe-in-christianity-2/ ). This was as much a problem for the disciples as well — and would have hindered their preaching. The Jews themselves had no trust in such people, if we are to believe later writings in the Talmud: of men such as Peter and John, who were called “people of the land,” it was said: “…we do not commit testimony to them; we do not accept testimony from them.”

It represents an ancient truism also applicable in the ancient world as a whole. Social standing was tied to personal character in an intimate manner. Fairly or unfairly, a country bumpkin was the last person you would believe. Only Paul may have avoided this stigma among the apostolic band. (Matthew may have as well, if he were not a member of a group despised for different reasons: a tax collector.) Very few messengers of Christianity would have been able to avoid this stigma.

There is another complexity to this factor: Christianity held none of the power cards. It was not endorsed by the “power structure” of the day, neither Roman nor Jewish. It could have been crushed merely by the word of authority if necessary. Why wasn’t it, when it made itself so prone to be in the business of others? You think no one would care?

 

Factor #13 — You Can’t Keep a Secret!

The group-oriented culture of the ancients leads to a shoring up of yet another common apologetic argument. Apologists regularly note that Christian claims would have been easy to check out and verify. Skeptics, especially G. A. Wells[iv], (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087975429X/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687782&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0812693922&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0A7PGFFMX4C7C12YJJ80 )

The_Historical_Evidence

counter by supposing that no one would have cared to find out such things. The skeptics are very wrong — they operate not only against the natural human tendency to curiosity, but also against a very important group-oriented social structure.

Do you value your privacy? Then stay in America. Malina and Neyrey note that “in group-oriented cultures such as the ancient Mediterranean, we must remember that people continually mind each other’s business.” (p. 183) Privacy was unknown and unexpected. On the one hand, neighbors exerted “constant vigilance” over others; on the other hand, those watched were constantly concerned for appearances, and the associated rewards of honor or sanctions of shame that came with the results.

It’s the same in group-oriented cultures today…if you ever wonder why America has trouble spreading “democracy” you need look no further than that 70% of the world is group-oriented.

Think of this: We complain of the erosion of privacy, but know as well that it is a compromise for the sake of social control. The ancients would not have worried about not having adequate measures in place to stop a terrorist attack — because such measures of surveillance were already present. Control comes not from individuals controlling themselves, but from the group controlling the individual. (This is also why we have a tough time relating to the ancient church’s ways of fellowship.)

Pilch and Malina (p. 115) (http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Social-Values-Their-Meaning/dp/1565630041/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427672361&sr=1-1&keywords=malina+and+pilch)

Biblical_social_values

add that strangers were viewed in the ancient world as posing a threat to the community, because “they are potentially anything one cares to imagine…Hence, they must be checked over both as to how they might fit in and as to whether they will subscribe to the community’s norms.” Malina adds in The New Testament World (36-7) (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0664222951/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=3524617616&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_4747qydyme_p )

The New Testament World

that honor was always presumed to exist within one’s own family of blood,” but all outside that circle are “presumed to be dishonorable — untrustworthy, if you will — unless proved otherwise.” No one outside the family is trusted “unless that trust can be validated and verified.” Strangers to a village are considered “potential enemies”; foreigners “just passing through” (as missionaries would) are “considered as certain enemies.” Missionaries would find their virtues tested at every new stopping point.

Ancient people controlled one another’s behavior by watching them, spreading word of their behavior (what we call “gossip”), and by public dishonor. Critics who ask what Pharisees were doing out in the country watching Jesus’ disciples crack grain, and consider that improbable, are way off track. “…[T]he Pharisees seem to mind Jesus’ business all the time,” (p.183) and little wonder, since that was quite normal to do. (Philo notes that there were “thousands” who kept their eyes on others in their zeal to ensure that others did not subvert the Jewish ancestral institutions — Wright, Jesus and the Victory of God, p379.) ( http://www.amazon.com/dp/0800626826/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=4962616351&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_4rw1okmroe_e )

Jesus and the victory of God

So now the Skeptic has another conundrum. In a society where nothing escaped notice, there was indeed every reason to suppose that people hearing the Gospel message would check against the facts — especially where a movement with a radical message like Christianity was concerned.

The empty tomb would be checked. Matthew’s story of resurrected saints would be checked out. Lazarus would be sought out for questioning. Excessive honor claims, such as that Jesus had been vindicated, or his claims to be divine, would have been given scrutiny. In addition, converts to the new faith would have to answer to their neighbors. Checking the facts would provide “grist for the mill” (since it would be assumed it could help control the movement).

If the Pharisees checked Jesus on things like hand washing and grain picking; if large crowds gathered around Jesus each time he so much as sneezed — how much more would things like a claimed resurrection have been looked at.

 

Factor #14 — An Ignorant Deity??

Scholars of all persuasions have long recognized the “criteria of embarrassment” as a marker for authentic words of Jesus. Places where Jesus claims to be ignorant (not knowing the day or hour of his return; not knowing who touched him in the crowd) or shows weakness are taken as honest recollections and authentic (even where miracles stories often are not!). This is a lesser cousin of the crucifixion factor ( https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/why-believe-in-christianity/ )  — if you want a decent deity, you have to make him fully respectable. Ignorance of future or present events paints a stark portrait that theological explanations about kenotic[v] emptying just will not overcome in the short term.

You have to have a trump card to overcome that seeming double whammy; otherwise critics like Celsus[vi] have more axes to grind.

 

Factor #15 — A Prophet Without Honor

Mark 6:4 A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

We have already noted above that Jesus died a dishonorable form of death, and came from a locale with a low “honor rating” (basically, the equivalent of ‘the other side of the tracks’). There is more to this matter of dishonor, but so as not to be appearing to stack the deck, let us look at some other places where Jesus endured disgrace — and thereby also offended the sensibilities of his contemporaries:

  • The mocking before his execution — this was no mere game of dress-up, but a calculated insult to Jesus’ honor and his claim to be King of the Jews. By doing this, and challenging Jesus to prophesy, it was a way of challenging, and negating, Jesus’ honor. By the thinking of an honor-based society, Jesus should have met the challenge and shown himself to be a true prophet or king.
  • The charges themselves — on the surface, Jesus openly committed blasphemy and pled guilty to sedition. “Those who elected to follow such a subversive and disgraced man were immediately suspect in the eyes of [Jews and Romans].” (DeSilva, p. 46)
  • The burial — Byron McCane[vii] has written in an article The Shame of Jesus’ Burial in which he argues that Joseph of Arimathea had clear motives, even aside from being a disciple of Jesus, to arrange for the burial: It fits the requirement of Deut. 21:22-23 to bury one hung on a tree before sunset, and as a Sanhedrin member Joseph would have this concern and want to make arrangements. On the other hand, that Jesus was buried in Joseph’s tomb — and not in a tomb belonging to his family — was itself dishonorable. The lack of mourners for Jesus was also a great dishonor.

It should be fairly noted that McCane does not regard all that is in the Gospels as reliable. He indicates as well that Joseph was not really a disciple of Jesus, just a Sanhedrin member doing a duty. It perhaps may not occur to McCane to suppose that Joseph used such a duty as a pretext to get hold of Jesus’ body before another Sanhedrin member with less respect for Jesus did so. But in any event, even with the Gospel accounts considered fully accurate, they “still depict a burial which a Jew in Roman Palestine would have recognized as dishonorable.”

 

[i] Marcus Fabius Quintilianus (35 BC – 100 BC) was a Roman rhetorician from Hispania, widely referred to in medieval schools of rhetoric and in Renaissance writing. In English translation, he is usually referred to as Quintilian. In other words he was taught to be a BS’er.

[ii] Cleopas appears in Luke 24:13-27 as one of two disciples walking from Jerusalem to Emmaus. Cleopas is named in verse 18, while his companion remains unnamed

[iii] Nicodemus appears three times in the Gospel of John. He first visits Jesus one night to discuss his teachings.(John 3:1–21) The second time Nicodemus is mentioned, he reminds his colleagues in the Sanhedrin that the law requires that a person be heard before being judged.(John 7:50–51). Finally, Nicodemus appears after the Crucifixion to provide the customary embalming spices, and assists Joseph of Arimathea in preparing the body of Jesus for burial.(John 19:39–42)

[iv] The Historical Evidence for Jesus is not a frontal attack on Christians per se; rather it is an easily understood but scholarly examination of the evidence for many long-accepted notions about the “biography” of the man called Jesus.

[v] the doctrine that Christ relinquished His divine attributes so as to experience human suffering.

[vi] Celsus was a 2nd-century Greek philosopher and opponent of Early Christianity. He is known for his literary work, The True Word which survives exclusively in quotations from Contra Celsum. This work, c. 177 is the earliest known comprehensive attack on Christianity.

[vii] http://enoch2112.tripod.com/ByronBurial.htm

 

Why believe in Christianity

I am on the 4th of a list of 17 factors that non-believers bring up — places where Christianity “did the wrong thing” in order to be a successful religion. It is my contention that the only way Christianity did succeed is because it was a truly revealed faith — and because it had the irrefutable witness of the Resurrection.

turning_the_tables

It is time that we turn the tables on non-believers so this comprehensive list of issues that I believe non-believers must deal with in explaining why Christianity succeeded where it should have clearly failed or died out.

 

Several people wanted me to list these 17 factors so here we go:

Factor #1 – Why Start a Religion With the Leader Crucified

Factor #2 – Why Use a Man from Galilee – not a popular place

Factor #3 – Why a Religion where the Leader is “Resurrected” Broken down into two parts easy and hard.

Today we will post the 4th, 5th and 6th factors, shorter ones but still, important. Why would so many people believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior when these are reasons against it at the time.

 

Factor #4 — What’s New? What’s Not Good

Roman literature tells us that “(t)he primary test of truth in religious matters was custom and tradition, the practices of the ancients.” In other words, if your beliefs had the right sort of background and a decent lineage (heritage), you had the respect of the Romans. Old was very good. Change, new and innovative was bad.

This was a big sticking point for Christianity, because it could only trace its roots back to a recent founder about 30 years. Christians were regarded as “arrogant innovators” whose religion was the new kid on the block, but yet had the nerve to insist that it was the only way to go! The old phrase “My way or the Roman highway” has been shortened slightly in the ensuing years. As noted above, Christianity argued that the “powers that be” which judged Jesus worthy of the worst and most shameful sort of death were completely wrong, and God Himself said so.

Malina and Neyrey explain the matter further. Reverence was given to ancestors, who were considered greater “by the fact of birth.” Romans “were culturally constrained to attempt the impossible task of living up to the traditions of those necessarily greater personages of their shared past.” What had been handed down was “presumed valid and normative. Forceful arguments might be phrased as: ‘We have always done it this way!'” Semper, ubique, ab omnibus — “Always, everywhere, by everyone!” In contrast, Christianity said, “Not now, not here, and not you!”

Of course this explains why Paul appeals to that which was handed on to him by others (1 Cor. 11:2) — but that is within a church context and where the handing on occurred in the last 20 years. Pilch and Malina add [Handbook of Biblical Social Values, p.19]

handbook_biblical_social_values

that change or novelty in religious doctrine or practice met with an especially violent reaction; change or novelty in religious dogma or doctrine was “a means value which serves to innovate or subvert core and secondary values.” In other words if you have something new to espouse you would more likely be labeled a heretic.

Even Christian eschatology and theology stood against this perception. The idea of sanctification, of an ultimate cleansing and perfecting of the world and each person, stood in direct opposition to the view that the past was the best of times, and things have gotten worse since then.

The Jews, on the other hand, traced their roots back much further, and although some Roman critics did make an effort to “uproot” those roots, others (including Tacitus – who referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44)

tactius_annals

accorded the Jews a degree of respect because of the antiquity of their beliefs. In light of this we can understand efforts by some early Christian writers to link Christianity to Judaism as much as possible, and thus attain the same “antiquity” that the Jews were sometimes granted. (Of course, we would agree that the Christians were right to do this, but that is not how the Romans saw it!)

Critics of Christianity, of course, “caught on” to this “trick” and soon pointed out (however illicitly) that Christians could hardly claim Judaism as their past and at the same time observe none of its practices.

Therefore this is a hurdle that Christianity could never overcome outside a limited circle — not without some substantial offering of proof.

 

 

Factor #5 — Don’t Demand Behavior

This is not one of the greatest barriers to starting a new religion, but it is a significant one, and of course still is today. Ethically, Christian religion is “hard to do”. Judaism was as well, and that is one reason why there were so few fearers of God- Christianity didn’t offer nice, drunken parties or orgies with temple prostitutes; in fact it forbade them. It didn’t encourage wealth; it encouraged sharing the wealth (not socialism as we will see in another article). It did not appeal to the senses; it promised “pie in the sky by and by.”

This was a problem in the ancient world as much as it is now — if not more so. It would not appeal to the rich, who would be directed to share their wealth. The poor might like that, but not if they could not spend that shared dough on their favorite vice-distraction (not all of which were known to be “self-harming” and therefore offered an ulterior motivation for giving them up). Again, this is not an insurmountable hurdle; some Romans were attracted to the ethical system of Judaism, and would have been likewise attracted to Christianity.

It is very difficult to explain why Christianity grew where God-fearers were always a very small group. Not even evangelistic fervor explains that.

 

Factor #6 — Tolerance is a Virtue

We have already alluded to the problem of Christianity being seen as an “arrogant innovator.” Now compound the problem: Not only an innovator, but an exclusivist innovator. Many skeptics and non-believers today claim to be turned off by Christian “arrogance” and exclusivity. How much more so in the ancient world? The Romans were already grossly intolerant (point 2 in this discussion https://iamnotanatheist.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/why-believe-in-christianity-2/ ); how much more so in the context of another and very new faith playing the same game and claiming to overthrow the social and religious order? How if a faith came telling us we needed to stop attending our churches (and in fact would prefer we tear them down), stop having our parties, stop observing the social order that had been in place from the time of our venerated ancestors until now?

As DeSilva notes, “the message about this Christ was incompatible with the most deeply rooted religious ideology of the Gentile world, as well as the more recent message propagated in Roman imperial ideology” (i.e., the pax Romana versus the eschatology and judgment of God).

Roman_empire_pax_Romana

Area under Roman control for over 200 years including the life and deathe of Jesus Christ.

The Christians refused to believe in the gods, “the guardians of stability of the world order, the generous patrons who provided all that was needed for sustaining life, as well as the granters of individual petitions.” Jews and Christians alike were accused of atheism under this rubric (“a standard of performance for a defined population”).

Furthermore, because there was no aspect of social life that was secular — religion was intertwined with public life in a way that would make legions of ACLU attorneys cry — Jews and Christians held themselves aloof from public life, and engendered thereby the indignation of their neighbors.

That was bad enough, but Jews too would be intolerant to the new faith. Jewish families would feel social pressure to cut off converts and avoid the shame of their conversion. Without something to overcome Roman and even Jewish intolerance, Christianity was doomed.

Next Factor #7 — Stepping Into History

Acts 26:26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.

This factor is a large one, multifaceted and complex and with varying levels of strength.

 

NT to OT references

The non-believers have a tendency to want to nit-pick the Bible into parts without ever coming to a belief that it is a whole book, written by several authors over a period of time, but describing in complete harmony with itself our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They will study the Bible, but start with a preconceived notion that it is a book of mystical fairy tales and never come to an understanding of the Truth. That is cool. That becomes their problem; they will have to deal with the Lord during the Apocalypse.

why_is_ot_nt_God_different

It has been difficult to visually depict how often (and how) the New Testament writers used the Old Testament, whether explicitly (quotations) or implicitly (allusions). This would show how the two sections written about 500 years apart interlace. This gentleman and this URL, using data generated by several others, has created a wonderful graphic which shows how often and in which manner the OT and the NT are interlaced. I reprint the graphic below and if you want the actual data he used, you can download if from his website, as I did.

http://blog.balinsbooks.com/2011/06/27/old-testamentnew-testament-reference-graphic/

otnt-links

Legend:

Rings:

  • Blue ring = Old Testament books (starting with Genesis in the top (12 o’clock) position clockwise through Malachi (around the 8 o’clock position);
  • Orange ring = New Testament books (starting with Matthew right after Malachi, through Revelation ending right before Genesis);

Lines:

  • Blue = Links in the Synoptic gospels
  • Green = Links in the gospel of John
  • Purple = Links in Hebrews
  • Red = Links in Revelation
  • Grey = Links in the rest of the New Testament books

 

Why believe in Christianity

The Easy Part

Ok, now this is supposed to be the easy part of explaining how the Jewish people of about 2,000 years ago understood what resurrection meant and how today’s skeptics warp and distort that information to prove their points that Jesus did not arise from the grave. First some shorthand: NT = New Testament, OT= Old Testament. So let’s have it!

I have previously noted that at the core of many non-believers or other arguments on the resurrection of Jesus Christ lies a base assumption. This is that the epistolary (relating to or denoting the writing of letters or literary works in the form of letters) NT records could be interpreted as saying that the resurrected Jesus was not a being with a physical body (as the Gospels make clear), but rather was some sort of ghostly or spiritual being that was not tangible. This allows the Skeptics another way to attack the resurrection by claiming the visions of Jesus then mass hallucinations, or “something” like that.

 

Now even if indeed the resurrection body (as I will disprove) was not physical, this does not automatically disqualify the authenticity and revelatory authority of the appearances; it merely gives some critics another argument to try to hold on to. However, we need not make that point. The purpose of this essay is to demonstrate that the resurrection body of Jesus clearly was physical, and that this will shown in two ways:

  • The Jewish contextual literature of the period that describes the nature of resurrection.

2)    The NT epistles themselves, which many skeptical and other critics fail to understand properly.

In recent days, in Empty Tomb: Jesus Beyond the Grave has become a popular book for atheists and non-believers (I warned you I research both sides of the issue-please feel free to verify and cross check me at your convenience and expense).

The_empty_Tomb

It is a collection of thesis from many scholars who would refute what I will be saying in this article, but that is all right. They have their opinions and I have the facts of my faith. It is a good read, but I would not pay for it, get your local library to borrow a copy for you from a university library.

We first need to do a quick background survey of Jewish literature. This will be taken from Pheme Perkins’ work Resurrection. And this one I do recommend you buy.

P_P_Resurrection

Although not all Jews held uniform ideas about resurrection, it becomes clear that the concept always involved a physical reconstitution of the deceased body. There is no room or place for the idea of a “spiritual resurrection”, which was an unknown concept in this timeframe- this is a 20-21st century concept.

We need to do a quick survey of relevant material from the OT and other writings from that time, including books that were not considered historically accurate to be included as a formal part of the Bible, but would still show many of the ideas and concepts of that period of time:

Daniel 12:2-3 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever.

Ezekiel 37:1-12 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Is. 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise.

These three passages, especially Ezekiel, are essential to the concept of resurrection. Now here are other citations from Judaism at or about the time of Jesus:

4 Ezra 7:32 The earth shall restore those who sleep in her, and the dust those who rest in it, and the chambers those entrusted to them.

1 Enoch 51:1 In those days, the earth will also give back what has been entrusted to it, and Sheol will give back what it has received, and hell will give back what it owes.

Sib. Or. IV[i] …God Himself will refashion the bones and ashes of humans and raise up mortals as they were before.

2 Baruch 50:2ff For certainly the earth will then restore the dead. It will not change their form, but just as it received them, so it will restore them.

Pseudo-Phocylides 103-4 …we hope that the remains of the departed will soon come to light again out of the earth. And afterward, they will become gods.

Now, let us deal directly with some of the objections to the Resurrection that are in the book edited by Robert Price.

Objection: Could there have been a “two-body” version of resurrection?

Carrier writes an article to try to specifically demonstrate that the idea of a “two-body doctrine” of resurrection could have plausibly existed in Judaism. Briefly, this “doctrine” is supposed to be that a dead body of a person stayed and rotted in the grave and they were given a completely new body in heaven. In short, there is a full replacement as opposed to a complete transformation.

One aspect of his approach is to appeal to “diversity” in Judaism. Carrier charges those who maintain a relatively uniform view of resurrection in Judaism with “inherently racist” thinking. Where he comes up with that is anybody’s guess and it is a bit ironic in a volume where another paper by J. Duncan M. Derrett appeals to the racist stereotype of Jews as financiers or gold hoarders.

This is not “racist” in any sense but in accord with the conservative realities of ancient suspicions about anything new; and it is and it is also in line with the point that any faith or belief will have an “acceptable pool of diversity.” This concept has been different in today’s world, where groups like the “Skinheads”, “Black Panthers”, and many more small groups maintain standards that do not allow for diverse thoughts or actions that go against the groups “core principles.” Thus we would hardly expect Carrier to admit that a person was an “atheist” if they believed in God. So likewise, the idea is that Judaism held at its core a certain idea of “resurrection”.

Carrier first errs by believing that the Jewish faith could not conceive of survival in a disembodied soul. He takes it further to mean Jews could not conceive of ANY conscious life apart from a body. That is not what is being argued here. He then goes on to claim that first century Judaism boasted “a colorful continuum of ideologies” but rather significantly missing from this continuum is any evidence of a two-body doctrine. He names some thirty sects, but admits that “we know almost nothing about” some of them.

Carrier’s mere listing of sect names does not tell us just how closely these groups were aligned — whether it was a matter of “Presbyterians and Lutherans” or “Baptists and Mormons” or any other juxtaposition of sects. He even admits that the number of sects could be most conservatively given at ten. In light of how little information he truly does have, it is evidence of epistemic (of or relating to knowledge or to the degree of its validation ) despair that he resorts to the contrivance of arguing that “it is absurd to say they would not accept a two-body doctrine of resurrection” merely on the basis of their variety. Nothing like stating your opinion and making it the ‘truth’ for others. Carrier has failed to prove that such a belief would fall within an “acceptable pool of diversity” for Judaism, and cannot show that it would; thus his appeal to “diversity” is in vain.

In terms of proving that there WAS such a doctrine elsewhere in Judaism, his evidence is both meager and again contrived:

  • He appeals to those who supposedly believed in a conscious soul before the general resurrection; this has little to do with a belief concerning resurrection itself, much less does it prove a “two body” thesis.
  • He notes “Jubilees 23-25 and a redaction in 1 Enoch (92-105) as well as other Jewish apocrypha, “the latter of which are not specified”. But neither of these says that the non-bodied soul “lives forever…without a body” as claimed. One wonders whether Carrier has fallen for the error of equating “soul” with “spirit” in these texts because he doesn’t indicate any difference.
  • He appeals to Philo, who (in line with his Hellenism) called the present body a prison to be escaped, and believed in an ethereal afterlife. As one who has been seriously Hellenized, the relevance of Philo to this issue is highly questionable. Philo was an example of the sort of thinking that “did not come to dominate the horizon,” of one who syncretrized his beliefs with Platonism.

To use Philo as evidence in favor of a broader possible existence of a “two body” doctrine, is unreasonable, especially since it is not close to such an idea, despite Carrier’s attempts to make it that way. There is no “new” body here, but rather, components of the “old” person released. This is similar to the Essenes, who held a view similar to Philo’s, though the Essenes do not reject a later resurrection according to Josephus.

  • Carrier claims there exists an “explicit” report of a two-body belief from Josephus, in which those raised “cross-over” into “a different body” but does not provide evidentiary proof of it. Carrier errs, however, in trying to force the language of Josephus to say more than it does. Instead, Josephus teaches a transformed body IS a “different body” and would also, by virtue of exposure to the cleansing power of YHWH, be called “undefiled” — and thus he does not at all clearly teach a “two body” doctrine.
  • Last, Carrier points to a “Rabbi Mari” who merely says that “the righteous are fated to dust,” from which Carrier forces the conclusion that he “believed in a different type of resurrection.” Mari’s words are not in the least incompatible with a transformatory view, and moreover, are just as well understood not as a teaching of doctrine, but as a riddle in which a subject is tested and challenged to defend his view against a seemingly contradictory passage.

So there is the OT attempts to claim a two body resurrection. Very little to no evidence and a great deal of speculation and reading into words ideas that are not really there.

[i] THE Sibyls occupy a conspicuous place in the traditions and history of ancient Greece and Rome. Their fame was spread abroad long before the beginning of the Christian era. They belong to that large body of pseudepigraphical literature which flourished near the beginning of the Christian era (about B. C. 150-A. D. 300), and which consists of such works as the Book of Enoch, the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, the Book of Jubilees, the Assumption of Moses, the Psalms of Solomon, the Ascension of Isaiah, and the Fourth Book of Esdras. The production of this class of literature was most notable at Alexandria in the time of the Ptolemies.

old_new_testament

Let’s now work with the NT evidence, starting with the positive arguments for a physical resurrection body:

  1. Paul’s word for “body” can have no other meaning than a physical body.

In this regard, Gundry’s landmark study of the word used for “body” (soma) makes it quite clear that something physical is intended. In Soma in Biblical Theology, Gundry examines the use of soma in other literature of the period and shows that it refers to the physical “thingness” of a body- an actual ‘touchy”, “feely” something or other. It is most often used in the sense of commanding the movement of, such as: “We need a body over here” with reference to slaves who are used as tools; to soldiers who are on the verge of death, to passengers on a boat, or to people in a census. In other places, it is used to refer to a corpse (and so cannot refer by itself to the “whole person”).

Xenophon (Anabasis 1.9.12) refers to the people entrusting Cyrus with their possessions, their cites, and their “bodies” (somata). Plato refers to the act of habeus corpus in terms of producing a soma. Aristophanes refers to the throwing of a soma to dogs. It is used by Euripides and Demosthenes to refer to corpses.

  1. Paul’s 1 Cor. 15 examples are analogous to a physical body.

Paul is answering the question posed by the Corinthians, “How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?” His answers refer to appropriate physical bodies, suitable for various types of existence — “somatic variety with the universe”[1]. This is not appropriate if Paul has in mind a spiritual, disembodied “resurrection”. And of course, he refers back to Christ’s own body (1 Cor. 15:3ff) as an example of this principle in action, a “positive and emphatic correlation” between the resurrection of Christ and that of the believer.

  1. The word anastasis can only mean bodily resurrection.

This word is used 44 times in the NT. In the Synoptics we have this episode: “The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection…” In John we have: “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation,” a clear allusion to Daniel 12; also “Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Acts uses this word to explain what happened to Jesus. “But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.”; “And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.” Paul uses anastasis as well to refer to what happened to Jesus (Rom. 1:4, 6:5; 1 Cor. 15; Phil. 3:10). It is used to describe a physical, bodily resurrection in Heb. 11:35, and is found as well in 1 Peter.

Skeptics may wish to argue, “Well, the Gospels and Hebrews meant one thing, and Paul meant another.” That would be a case of massaging the written facts to fit into line with a specific theory.

  1. 2 Cor. 5 shows that a physical body is in view.

“Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.”

Here, Paul describes the earthly body as a “tent” (i.e., temporary living structure) and the new body as something that is a “building” built by God, something that one is “clothed” with (the verb in question has the connotation of “pulling one garment on over another one”[2]), something that the Spirit is a “deposit” for. How much more of a suggestion of being tangible and material do we need?

  1. 3:21

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

It is clear from this simple little verse that Paul regards Christ as now having a “glorious” body (soma). This is clear testimony to a physical resurrection.

  1. A transfer to an idea of a physical resurrection from a spiritual one makes no sense in the social context.

In view of the expanding Gentile mission, it is hard to see how an embellishment from “disembodied” to “embodied” could take place. The Greeks perceived such events as a resurrection, initially, as a “resuscitated corpse”. Paul would have had no problem preaching a disembodied spirit to the Gentiles; but doing that, then switching it to “physical” as in the Gospels, would have been highly counterproductive to missions. As Perkins [observes[3]:

Christianity’s pagan critics generally viewed resurrection as misunderstood metempsychosis at best. At worst, it seemed ridiculous.

This view is reflected for example by Celsus, who responded to the idea of resurrection: “The soul may have everlasting life, but corpses, as Heraclitus said, ‘ought to be thrown away as worse than dung'”. Plutarch similarly said it was “against nature” to “send bodies to heaven” and that only pure souls “cast no shadows” (i.e., had no bodies) and he even rejected accounts of bodily translations on this basis. “The funeral pyre was said to burn away the body so that the immortal part could ascend to the gods.”

There were cases of temporary resuscitation, but these occurred before the person was buried and in almost all cases before they entered the realm of the dead. In such cases the person died again eventually — which does not conflict with hostility to, or rejection of, resurrection. (See Peter Bolt, “Life, Death and the Afterlife in the Greco-Roman World”, in Life in the Face of Death, Eerdmans, 1998.)

Note as well that in 1 Cor., Paul is addressing advocates of asceticism and libertinism — points of view associated with those who thought matter was evil and at the root of all of man’s problems. Platonic thought supposed that “man’s highest good consisted of emancipation from corporeal defilement. The nakedness of disembodiment was the ideal state.”[4] If the critics are right, Christianity took a big and significant step backwards that should have killed it in the cradle, or at least caused historical reprecussions and divisions that would still be in evidence.

This is my “pro” case for a physical resurrection body; what about the counter-arguments? I haven’t forgotten about them- next posting. Robert Price claims above that the Gospel pictures of the resurrection of Jesus clash “violently” with those in the epistles — mainly, Paul’s material in 1 Cor. 15. Is this truly the case? We will find out.

[1] Harris, Murray. Raised Immortal. Eerdmans, 1983

[2] Craig, William Lane. Analyzing the New Testament Evidence for the Resurrection

 

[3] Perkins, Pheme. Resurrection: New Testament Witness and Contemporary Reflection. New York: Doubleday, 1984.

[4] Harris, Murray. Raised Immortal. Eerdmans, 1983

The Wrong “Resurrection”?

resurrection

When I started researching this section, I knew it would be difficult, but had no idea what I would actually be getting into.   The normal atheists and non-believers had their usual collection of scatter-brained ideas and theories based upon personal opinion and prejudices. I was able to counter their fallacious arguments fairly quickly.

However, since the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is a foundational point of Christianity- we are the only religion with a Living God- I did not realize what a target this aspect of our faith had become. There are many intellectual arguments out that trying to destroy the belief in the Resurrection, besides the normal rabble-rousers. Therefore, I had to do far more research than I had expected to counter these individuals who had actually read the Bible and other works written during that era and had unfortunately come to the wrong conclusions based upon the available evidence.

120-Beter-Tombs

So my discussions of the Resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be broken down into two parts: the easy part- dispelling the typical non-believers fallacies who make statements based upon their 21st century beliefs, and then the hard part where we will deal with the more intellectual arguments where they bring up unrelated facts based upon their reading and misunderstanding of the mores (the essential or characteristic customs and conventions of a community) of 2000 years ago.   In that section you can read and understand more and more until it gets too technical for you, which I am hoping it will not. I will be dealing with some complex issues brought up by the ‘intelligentsia’, some of which had me confused for awhile, but I hope to present the rebuttals on an easier to understand conceptual level for them.

So I guess it will actually be a three part series, this introduction and the two sections mentioned above.

As I will show in the easy part, the resurrection of Jesus, within the context of Judaism, was thought by Gentiles to be what can be described as “grossly” physical. This in itself raises a certain problem for Christianity beyond a basic Jewish mission. I have at times quoted Pheme Perkins (a nationally recognized expert on the Greco-Roman cultural setting of early Christianity) : “Christianity’s pagan critics generally viewed resurrection as misunderstood metempsychosis (the entering of a soul after death upon a new cycle of existence in a new body either of human or animal form) at best. At worst, it seemed ridiculous.”

It may further be noted that the pagan world was awash with points of view associated with those who thought matter was evil and at the root of all of man’s problems. Platonic thought supposed that “man’s highest good consisted of emancipation from corporeal defilement. The nakedness of disembodiment was the ideal state.” Physical resurrection was the last sort of result for mankind that you wanted to preach during this time.

Indeed, among the pagans, resurrection was deemed impossible. Wright in Resurrection of the Son of God quotes Homer’s King Priam: “Lamenting for your dead son will do no good at all. You will be dead before you bring him back to life.” And Aeschylus Eumenides: “Once a man has died, and the dust has soaked up his blood, there is no resurrection.” And so on, with several other ancient philosophers denying the possibility of resurrection.

Wright even notes that belief in resurrection was a ground for persecution: “We should not forget that when Irenaeus became bishop of Lyons he was replacing the bishop who had died in a fierce persecution; and that one of the themes of that persecution was the Christians’ tenacious hold on the belief in bodily resurrection. Details of the martyrdom are found in the letter from the churches of Vienne and Lyons to those of Asia and Phrygia. The letter describes how in some cases the torturers burnt the bodies and scattered the ashes into Rhone, so that no relic of the martyrs might still be seen on earth. This they did, says the writer, ‘as though they were capable of conquering god, and taking away their rebirth [palingenesia]’.”

Judaism itself would have had its own, lesser difficulty, although not insurmountable: there was no perception of the resurrection of an individual before the general resurrection at judgment. But again, this, though weird, could have been overcome — as long as there was evidence.

Not so easily in the pagan world. We can see well enough that Paul had to fight the Gnostics, the Platonists, and the ascetics on this idea. But what makes this especially telling is that a physical resurrection was completely unnecessary for merely starting a religion. It would have been enough to say that Jesus’ body had been taken up to heaven, like Moses’ or like Elijah’s. Indeed this would have fit (see part 3) what was expected, and would have been much easier to “sell” to the Greeks and Romans, for whom the best “evidence” of elevation to divine rank was apotheosis — the transport of the soul to the heavenly realms after death; or else translation while still alive.

So why bother making the belief in this new religion even harder? There is only one plausible answer — they really had a resurrection to preach.

silly rabbit